Nathan Bond's TART Remarks

Religion: Respect? Ridicule!

Feelin’ vrot*? Fantasize!

with 85 comments

LP. Reader discretion is advised.

6-0-0-0-0 men, m-i-g-h-t-y m-e-n, marchin’ on the KwaZulu town Greyton. They’ve come aprayin’ and aworshipin’.

The Mighty Men Conference 2008. It’s a marketing coup to die for, to be sure. I am envious of the campaign. It wants awards, it does. And the bootstrapping of Angus Buchan is awesome. I admire the man for sticktoitiveness. I do not have personal knowledge of his Beth-Hatlaim Children Home, but can only hope – I have no Faith – that it certainly alleviates suffering.

Yet the 60 000 are delusional. “God” would not prevent the server crash; “God” did not dissipate the traffic jams (beam me there, Goddy) and the congested mobile communications networks. And it was plain old garden variety vanilla business planning and stock control by alert business that ensured sufficient stockpiles of food and medicine, not the intervention of “God”. (The logistical problems were no doubt curve balls from the Cosmic Bowler Himself, testing, testing, testing…)

60 000 men, vies (disquieted) and gatvol (at the end of one’s tether), got together this weekend to bolster each other and to speak and dream of a better tomorrow. Nothing wrong with that. Good thing, in fact.

But to assure each other and oneself that “God” somehow, miraculously, is going to change it all? Give me a beak. Delusional. These people are dof**. They’re high on an even greater menace that Durban Poison*** – Faith.

Buchan (and presumably most every one of the 60 000) believes that the Bible is the inspired, infallible and authoritative Word of God; in the eternal triune God; in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father and His personal return in power and glory. That for the salvation of the lost and sinful man, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential. In the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a Godly life; in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved – unto resurrection of life – and they that are lost – unto resurrection of damnation. In the creation, test and fall of man, as recorded in Genesis; His total depravity and inability to attain to divine righteousness apart from God; in the Lord Jesus Christ; The Saviour of men, conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary – very God and very man. In the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ. (From the Shalom Ministries website; I corrected the spelling mistakes.)

Pure, unadulterated crap.

And are not 80% of South Africans already “Christians” – believers in “The Risen Christ”? Are not more than 90% of South Africans in awe of some sort of “God”? And yet. And yet.

Religion. What a crock. I wonder what 60 000 able bodied men, backed by the millions that were spent in transportation alone could have accomplished in an informal settlement somewhere. In a single weekend. One pair of hands working accomplishes more than 60 000 pairs of hands clasped in prayer.

But hey, if Faith’s your thing, smoke!, ek sê****. Praise Jeeee-sus! And listen to them potatoes grow! And the delusion.

By the way, Buchan’s bumper potato crop business turned into a movie has me thumped. I am most extremely doubtful that “God” manipulated weather patterns to deliver the bounty, but if indeed His Almighty intervened I think it only goes to prove that “God” is a cosmic blunderer of stupendous magnitude. I have this to say to “The Great Potato Farmer in the Sky”: Fuck the spuds, doffie**, and attend to the starving AIDS orphans in Africa. At least!

* Vrot. (Afrikaans – Rotten, putrid.) Used by all language groups to describe something highly undesirable, or smelly, or rotten. It can also mean drunk to the point of being completely paralytic. “I was vrot last night”. Surfrikan Slang

** Dof. (Afrikaans – “not bright”, “dull”.) Someone who is dof, is not necessarily that way all the time. It is often used to describe a temporary loss of brain cells. “Don’t be dof, you stupid doos.” (Don’t be a complete moron, you stupid c**t). It can also be used as a noun. “You doffie.” (You stupid person). Surfrikan Slang

*** Durban Poison. The name awarded one of South Africa’s choice grade cannabis vintages. Grown in KwaZulu Natal, this dagga is minty, almost peppery, and “makes on”. (Makes you totally wasted.) Surfrikan Slang

**** Ek sê. (Afrikaans – “I say”.) “I tell you”. An affirmative phrase to add impact to what you are communicating. Used in a fascinating variety of contexts all over the country. “Let’s hit the jol ek sê.” Surfrikan Slang

Written by Nathan Bond

April 20, 2008 at 11:12

85 Responses

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  1. Iemand gaan wakker word met ‘n “BANG” Nathan en ek dink dit gaan jy wees. Maar ek is seker daarvan daar gaan baie gebede vir jou op! God laat nie met hom spot nie! As jy niks goed kan kwytraak nie bly dan maar liewer stil jy sal almal ‘n guns doen!

    Martie

    May 20, 2010 at 10:01

  2. O EN NOG ‘N DING. JULLE HOU SO UPDATE. EK HOOP SODAT WANNEER GOD SE OORDEEL OOR 1 VAN DIE ONGELOWIGE ANTICHRISTE KOM DAT JULLE FOTO’S SAL OPSIT SODAT DIE ANDER ONGELOWIGES KAN SIEN WAT KAN DIE GOD DOEN WAT JULLE SO TART. IF YOU THINK THERE IS NO GOD THEN WE WILL TALK AGAIN THE DAY THAT GOD TAKE A CHILD OR SOMEONE THAT YOU LOVE. THERE IS A GOD AND I WILL LIFT HIS NAME UP HIGH AS LONG AS I AM IN THIS WORLD!!!!!!

    WIEK

    May 18, 2010 at 23:48

  3. EK WIL NIE DEEL WEES VAN ‘N WEBSITE VAN SATAN NIE MAAR EK WIL VIR IEDER EN ELK Sê MAG ONS HEMEL SE VADER JULLE GENADIG WEES. JY WAT DIE HEILIGE VADER SE NAAM ( JISSIS ) GEBRUIK VIR JULLE WIL EK Sê DAT DIE DAG AS GOD SE STRAF OOR JOU KOM DAN MOET JY DINK AAN DIE DAG TOE JY GESONDIG HET MET JOU HANDE OP DIE SITE.
    EK HET NIE EERS WOORDE VAN SKOK NIE. GOD SE OORDEEL GAAN JULLE VINNAGER TREF AS WAT JULLE VOOR HOOP EN EK BID DAT JULLE JULLE SAAK MET GOD REG MAAK VOOR DIT GEBEUR. HET JULLE AL OOIT GEWONDER HOE DIT MOET VOEL OM TOT IN ALLE EWIGHEID MET VUUR TE BAND SONDER OM TE STERF VAN DIE PYN? GAAN PLAAS JOU HAND IN DIE VUUR DAN HOU JY HOM DAAR DAN SAL JY WEET WAT WAG OP JOU. JULLE IS MENSE MET GEEN INTREGNITEIT EN EK DINK JULLE VREES GOD MAAR WIL MAAK ASOF JULLE VREESLIK STERK IS. MAG GOD DIE WEBBLAD EN DIE GODELOSE MENSE RUK TOT BESINNING. SIES!!!!!!!!!!!!EN VIR JOU WAT PRAAT VAN ELIA VAT ‘N BRANDENDE ALTAAR MOET KOM OP RIG, MY OU MAAT MAY GOD BE WITH YOU. JULLE IS LIGSINNIGE ONGELOWIGE SKUIM VAN DIE AARDE

    WIEK

    May 18, 2010 at 23:38

  4. Pat! Middagsê.

    Dit het my hart gebreek om te lees hoe jy as kind mishandel is en ek is diep dankbaar vir die terapie wat jy in Amerika ontvang het.

    Enige vorm van mishandeling teenoor ‘n weerlose kind, veral deur sy eie pa, walg my nog meer as wat godsdiens ooit vir Nathan (middag Nathan!) kan walg.

    Ek kan egter nie met jou volgende stellings saamstem nie:

    {“There has been no growth that I can perceive of over a period of 40 years…! Religious people do not grow, neither intellectually or emotionally.

    In Afrikaans praat ons van “So gemaak en so gelaat staan” Dit is die werklikheid van alle gelowiges.}

    Nee, Pat, nie alle gelowiges nie. Nathan, Rick, DW en ek vermoed die meeste ongelowige deelnemers, is in die geloof opgevoed.

    Ek het 3 broers waarvan ek die tweede oudste is. My pa was (op sy manier) diep godsdienstig en dit was sy wens dat al vier sy seuns predikante word. Hy was baie streng in sy godsdienstige opvoeding (hy het ons darem NOOIT gebliksem nie) en ELKE Sondagoggend en ELKE Sondagaand (skoolvakansies ingesluit), ook Goeie Vrydag en Hemelvaart, was die 4 Van der Merwe boeties in die kerk met Vader Van der Merwe, (hoofouderling, katagesehoof, regterhand en staatmaker van die dominee) in die ouderlingebank.

    Ek wil nie spasie mors nie so ek hou dit kort.

    Vandag is aldrie my broers agnosties en dus buite die kerk. Ek het volle begrip vir hulle redes. Net my jongste broer het ‘n predikant geword. Die goddelose klein bliksem was 12 jaar lank ‘n predikant en het 25 jaar gelede my oudste dogter gedoop!

    Ek is sedert 1997 ‘n ouderling in die Hervormde Gemeente Pretoria-Noord. In die tyd was ek katagesehoof, sekretaris van die ouderlingevergadering en die afgelope 2 jaar is ek skriba.

    My persepsie van godsdiens, God en die Bybel is egter nie naastenby wat dit 15 jaar terug was nie. veral die afgelope 6 maande, sedert ek hierdie blog lees, het ek baie gelees en baie gedink.

    Pat, ek hoop van harte dat die res van jou lewe net een lang, vet fees en vreugde sal wees.

    Daan Van der Merwe

    January 26, 2009 at 13:48

  5. Baie bly om van jou te verneem, Pat! Ek hoop ons sal jou mening gereeld hier hoor.

    Nathan Bond

    January 26, 2009 at 05:58

  6. Hullo Nathan en almal:
    Ek is 61 jaar oud. Op die jong ouderdom van 20 het ek besef dat geloof in een of ander god ‘n klomp kak is. Ek het natuurlik, – veral in daai jare – geweldige teenkanting gekry. Die verdoemenis, die waarskuwing en al die neurotiese kak wat jy van gelowiges af kry. Ek is vandag nog ‘n ateis. My tong in die kies slagspreuk is: “Thank god I’m not a believer…!”

    Nathan ek het so ‘n paar dae gelede jou website ontdek. Ek was aangenaam verras. Ek hoop om so nou en dan ‘n bydrae te kan maak. Ek het genoodsaak op die jong ouderdom van 15 begin met ‘n soektog wat my moes help om verlossing te kry van die nagevolge van
    groot word in ‘n godsdientige huis, waar ek nie vrae mag gevra het nie en ten minste een keer ‘n week goed gebliksem was. Die fisiese aanranding was altyd geregverdig uit daai fokken simpel onnosele kak storie-boek wat net vol kak en leuens is en wat geskryf is deur ‘n ‘motley crew’ van psigote, leuenaars, neurote, opgefokte wesens en wie weet wat nog.

    In 1980 was ek Amerika toe en het ‘n wonderlike terapie daar ondergaan wat my toegelaat het om in aanraking te kom met die geweldige pyn van my verlede wat hier in my binneste vasgebliksem was. My gevoelens was totaal onderdruk deur daardie siek en opgefokte ouers van my. Toe ek as jong man hulp gesoek het moes ek heeldag hoor dat ek nie my ouers moet blameer nie. Ook nie daai fokken god nie.

    Almal het net gepreek. Net soos vandag.

    M.A.W. “There has been no growth that I can perceive of over a period of 40 years…! Religious people do not grow, neither intellectually or emotionally.

    In Afrikaans praat ons van “So gemaak en so gelaat staan” Dit is die werklikheid van alle gelowiges.

    PAT VAN NIEKERK.

    Pat Van Niekerk

    January 25, 2009 at 17:25

  7. Sonny said, on July 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
    Aan Dirk West, vir iemand watt nie in God glo gebruik die woord Jissis darem baie. Jou gedrag spreek boekdele van jou opvoeding.

    Fokof

    DW

    August 6, 2008 at 18:17

  8. Duifie
    :”Shaughn julle het reeds die saadjie geplant – laat dit nou maar oor aan die Groot Tuinier om te laat groei. Shalom”

    NOGAL , die Tuinier !!!!
    Jissis jy’s snaaks.

    DW

    July 17, 2008 at 08:07

  9. Aan Dirk West, vir iemand watt nie in God glo gebruik die woord Jissis darem baie. Jou gedrag spreek boekdele van jou opvoeding.

    Sonny

    July 14, 2008 at 12:56

  10. My hart bloei vir julle wat nie wil glo nie !!! Ons het in die laaste dae inbeweeg, voorwaar. Soos iemand vroer gese het, die Bybel word net korrek bewys deur hierdie here wat so blatant onbeskof te velde trek teen die gelowiges en hulle Drie-enige-God. Ons kan maar net bid vir genade vir hulle. Shaughn julle het reeds die saadjie geplant – laat dit nou maar oor aan die Groot Tuinier om te laat groei. Shalom

    Duifie

    July 9, 2008 at 01:20

  11. Well done Nathan and Dirk, great to see you both holding the fort against the mind-boggling rubbish being written in defence of religion by these Angus-Buchan apologists. I especially enjoyed the bit about “bring and braai”. Too funny.

    Shaughn refers to your posts as an “inane attempt at phsycological battery”, but he himself indulges in some of the most assinine psuedo-scientific drivel in support of his religion. He is obviously not very bright; who is Mahat magandi? Seems the only book he’s read extensively is the Bible. Most of his religious invective has been debunked on numerous occasions. What a misguided fellow, having the audacity to think that science can be used to prove the existance of God. God is anathema to Science.

    I have debated many theists in the past, and they all use the same old tired, ludicrous, irrational hypothesis. Somewhere within the religious community (Christian mostly) there are people hard at work coming up with one ridiculous arguement after the other to prop up their failing religious empire, which I am sure is distributed on Sundays to congregants in the form of pamphlets. These religious apologists then unwittingly or otherwise, use these arguements (without testing its veracity) in rebuttal to any attempt by intelligent, rational people who point out their delusory status. I am so tired of hearing how religion has saved their miserable lives and set them on the “right path” etc. Has anybody told these dimwits that “religion provides the solace for the turmoil it creates”

    Religion is the world’s best business model. Imagine a business empire where you can sell shares in an imaginary product (salvation), use eternal damnation as your insurance policy/scare tactic/selling point, and make your customers believe that they can expect their dividends to be payed in the afterlife. Ask Angus Buchan; he’s also discovered that religion sells better than potatoes…

    Lenny

    June 23, 2008 at 22:09

  12. Ironic Nathan means “Gift from God” in Hebrew. How ever I can see where he is coming from. I do not believe that R100.00 is a big deal at all. But I as a believer can say that Faith without works is dead!

    Do not give into any dead thing. I find that most gatherings do a lot to build up men but if they have no fruit then a ladies fellowship meeting has more power. A man means that men are men and God made man. Why? Well let’s look at what men do, lead, provide, protect, propagate and go to war. Perhaps more but that is not the point.

    Think about it from the world looking in. There is no plan? What is going to change the world? Faith? Without work? Get real. I am a Christian and believe in God more than I believe in anyone else. But what the world sees is a bunch of people that say that they can change let’s say South Africa or Africa and do not show anything but body counts in salvation. What about talent? I do not mean playing the drums in the music ministry, but in everything that a man can do.

    So get this an average non believer spends R20.00 a day on a packet of smokes or three beers. That is R600.00 a month (conservative estimate on spending habits) on stuff that the FDA would never approve if it was invented in this day and age. Basically it is designed to kill you. Would the men’s for the master give that a month to make a difference in people’s lives?

    So let’s do the math. R600.00 x 60000 men = a whopping R36,000,000.00 of relief. Now take that talent and invest it in, well anything and then……………

    Annual = R432,000,000.00

    48000000 population in South Africa, lets say 50% were the saved servers of the living God. Each gave R600.00 – R14,400,000,000.00

    Annually = R172,800,000,000.00

    $21,600,000,000.00

    $432,000,000.00 = 2% interest PA

    $36,000,000.00 a month = R288,000,000.00

    So let’s cut that to 10% R28,800,000.00

    Twenty eight saved businesses a year and we did not even touch the capital. Oh lets cut that by half and give half to the tax man. (Not sure what tax is in SA)

    Now we the men for the master have MDs and people that head up departments in investment wealth companies even plumbers and every sort of man that is qualified in something and even non qualified men. Suppose they went into business to help create more wealth?

    Gee then we would have the power to change South Africa. He who has the money pulls the strings. If the wealth was with the believers then well the floodgates of heaven would be opened and the blessings will not be able to be contained.

    You want to cut back on crime?

    I am not suggesting that men should trust in money as a sign that God exists or loves them. I am saying that talents are wasted and good men are going bankrupt every day and no one will even attempt to do anything to save their butts. There is nothing new under the sun so I am not the first to think of this. Why do we stand by and do nothing?

    Who said that church must be non profit organisations? What did Jesus say, give to Caesar what is Caesar’s? That tells me that some man as usual decided that business is for the world and that God’s money is to be put in some religious account so that it can have no power ever. When I say church, I say it in the way the bible describes it the member the body the people. They are the church, the 60,000 and more that need to take action.

    Salvation is good and it is a start. Serving God and meeting needs is the work that faith inspires. It could be done better.

    Nathan I hope you find your god. He is not the same as mine. It is man that restricts God. Never look to man. God is powerful!

    I pray that every man for the master will pick up the responsibility and use their talent for God. I pray that you all start a trust and help people headed up by a non greedy tax paying man of God. I have no money but I will be the first to pay and I mean that I have no money I am bankrupt. I couldn’t find work. I lost everything but God will bring me back and that is not from the dead, from financial ruin.

    When I get back to South Africa one day I will serve where I have to and I will make a difference with God’s money.

    Take care men, do not ever stop men for the master! Use your talents and reach out with love and save not only the soul but also the physical man. You want more members? Burn with the power and wisdom of God and show the world who we are in Christ Jesus! Do not dig a hole and put your talent in it.

    Big D

    June 21, 2008 at 04:35

  13. Cobus
    Ek het les 3 van die Trinity gemis . As ek reg onthou het ek en my pelle pinnball gespeel met ons kollekte geld.
    Kan jy asseblief die Trinity vir my verduidelik want ek verstaan dit nie regtig nie.

    Gaan jy die altaar vir my aan die brand bid ? Toe man .

    Lizelle
    Ek weet nie waarvoor Cobus namens my omverskoning vra nie . So ignoreer sy verskoning asseblief.

    dirkvdwest

    June 2, 2008 at 08:18

  14. Cobus,

    Dankie vir die kompliment. Ek het jou antwoord drie keer gelees om seker te maak dat ek agter die kap van die hamer kan kom. As ek reg verstaan bedoel jy dat eenvoudig met ‘n “closed mind” na Dr. Seuss se verduideliking geluister het en deurmekaar geraak het met ander “interruptions”.

    Dis nie hoe ek werk nie. Ek sal sit en luister in detail omdat ek belangstel in ander mense se opinies, wie weet, miskien kan ek iets leer. Ek bevooroordeel nie. As ek aan die einde van die ou se beredenasies kom en hy probeer my nog steeds oortuig dat daar mannetjies op Mars is omdat Dr. Seuss so se, dan het ek nie ‘n keuse om skepties te wees nie want die storie het nie opmerkbare feite wat die waarheid onherroeplik kan bewys nie. Jou storie maak ongelukkig nie sin vir my nie, miskien mis ek iets.

    Omdat ek nie bevooroordeel nie, het ek die moeite gedoen om die Koran te lees, die Bybel menige kere deurgelees, Darwin se “Origin of Species” gelees, so bietjie van die Hindoes gelees en so aan. Die enigste boek wat absoluut sin gemaak het was Darwin se boek.

    John

    June 1, 2008 at 15:27

  15. Theodor Geisel se stories is heerlik! Maar die karakters is almal storiekarakters – en Dr. Seuss is eintlk… Theodor.

    Ek kritiseer godsdiens. Nie die Christengodsdiens by uitsondering nie. Islam is die mees idiotiese ding wat ooit bedink is, met Katolisisme wat so aan sy gat hap. Maar ek betoog teen die Christendom omdat ek in ‘n land woon waar ruim 80% van al die inwoners hierdie onsin aanhang en ruim 90% van mense meen dat “God” in die een of ander vorm onder die een of ander naam bestaan. Lees “It’s Religion, Stupid!” As jy my mening oor Hinduïsme, Islam, Boedhhisme saam met my mening oor die Christendom wil hê en “72 Virgins” as jy wil weet presies wat ek van Islam dink.

    Nathan Bond

    June 1, 2008 at 07:40

  16. John,

    Ok, ek, jy en baie ander mense wat uitgenooi is, gaan na ‘n “book-reading” van Dr. Seuss toe…daar gekom, begin ons gesels oor allerhande ander boeke wat ons gelees het.Almal chat onder mekaar en niemand steur hom aan die arme dr.Seuss wat sy boek lees, verduidelik en uitlê nie….nee ons maak ons eie planne en chat oor ons eie dinge…arme drommel try sy gat af maar ons voel vere…..

    Beteken dit dan dat Dr.Seuss, sy boeke, sy verduidelikings en uitnodigings nie bestaan nie???, of is dit net ‘n kwessie van ons wat anders besluit het??

    Die moeilikheid is verder, dat so hier en daar ons nog ‘n woord of twee gehoor het, en nou probeer ons dit toepas, so, noodgedwonge las onsself by en siedaar…ons sit met boeke kennis van Dr. Danielle Steele, geskryf in Swahili met teksverweking deur Deon Maas, sketse en ullistrasies deur Goscinni en Uderso en vertaal deur A.M van Schoor.

    Nou maak niks sin nie en dan kies ons om te sê Dr. Seuss is ‘n poephol…en die 2 of drie wat 100% reg geluister het is ge-indoktrineer en dwaas en word aan die neus rondgely…?????

    C’mon ou maat….wie is die regte idiot?? Dr.SEUSS?? OF DIE ANDER WAT REG GEHOOR HET?? OF JY??

    As niks dan meer sin maak nie is daar twee keuses….gaan terug na die volgende “bookshow”, luister met opregtheid en stap met verligte oë uit, of bly in die geloof dat als bollie is..

    Wat dink jy is die regte keuse??

    Ek was jare in die NG kerk, (selfs oujaarsaande) (altyd teen my wil.)….daarna vir jare in die wêreld (soos in my wil)…en vandag is ek ‘n man met ‘n identiteid in God…ek kan ure lank oor al drie wêrelde gesels.

    Jy klink na ‘n intilligente wel-belese man so ek glo jy verstaan my storie…en siedaar, nie eenkeer die bybel gebruik nie..

    Nou ja toe….ek het chop-chop, Dr.Seuss “geskape” na my beeld so whê!!, of?? is ek nie net ‘n dwaas nie??

    Wat sê jy en Einstein daaroor??

    Ps.Nathan, what link should i use to go to the sites/blogs where u critisize Islam, Hinduism, Bhoedism, Satanism etc, would love to read it.

    cobus

    May 31, 2008 at 21:58

  17. John

    Dankie vir ‘n beredeneerde bydrae. In By (deel van die Saterdag uitgawe van Die Burger) vandag is daar “los-ons-uit briewe” van Christene. Ek sal later die naweek daaroor skryf. Jy is inderdaad reg – “geloof” (iets anders as hoop, wat ek meen ‘n menslike wapen is) is ‘n soort skuiling; ‘n kierie.

    Maar ek wil net graag hierdie ding sê: Ek was ‘n toegewyde Christen en ek is nou ‘n opperste opponent van godsdiens en “geloof”. Aan beide kante van die draad het ek “goeie” én “slegte” mense geken; was ék “goed” én “sleg”. Ons is ménse. Ons is feilbaar. “Geloof”, of die gebrek aan “geloof”, maak ons nie “béter” mense, of “slégter” mense nie. Ons is gewoon ménse.

    Na die “beeld van ‘God”’? Inderdáád! Mense het “God” gemaak om soos hulle te wees, net sterker; net beter. Maar “God” is presies soos die mense wat vir “God” gemaak het. Daarom is “God” ‘n feilbare idee.

    Nathan Bond

    May 31, 2008 at 11:15

  18. Ek dink dis so bietjie tyd dat die wedergebore ateiste bietjie van hulle laat hoor. As ‘n persoon wat kerkorrelis was, koor opgelei het, 7 dae ‘n week by die kerk was en na meer preke geluister as enige tien mense saam, kan ek finaal sonder enige twyfel se dat die mens god na sy beeld geskep het. Omdat ek so naby die gemeente was en so baie met mense in die kerk betrokke was, het dit oor ‘n tydperk duidelik geword dat die beste christene op ‘n Sondag die grootste sondaars op ‘n Maandag is.

    Nadat ek die storie so vir ‘n jaar of twee dopgehou het, kom ek toe agter dat ‘n groot meerderheid van die wedergebore christene mense was met baie persoonlike probleme. Drank, rondslaap, min geld, te veel skuld, wat ookal. Die mense wat die minste beheer oor hulle lewe het en die meeste emosionele hulp nodig het voel dat aangesien hulle nie in beheer van hulle lewe is nie, dat hulle geloof moet he dat iemand anders beter as hulle wel in beheer van hulle lewe is.

    Dis hoekom hulle sulke diep christene is. Hulle MOET glo dat daar ‘n groter hand is wat kan help, iemand met wie hulle kan kommunikeer wat hulle en hulle probleme kan verstaan. Christendom, heiligheid, vroomheid ensovoorts is ‘n emosionele beskerming teen ‘n moeilike lewe, ‘n kierie wanneer die loop te swaar word vir ‘n mens om alleen te dra.

    Interessante teorie, dat mens god na sy beeld geskape het. Toe dink ek so bietjie meer daaroor. As daar een god was, dan sou daar een geloof gewees het. Maar daar is islam, boedisme, christene, hindoes, animisme. Al die gelowe het een ding in gemeen – een of ander god met vermoens, kragte ens… het wat groter as die mensdom self is. Die feit dat jy die god/gotte nie kan sien, ontmoet, groet, hoor of op enige ander manier kan bewys dat hulle bestaan nie, beteken dat jy moet glo in wat nie bestaan nie.

    Die enigste manier hoe dit kan gedoen word is kom kinders van jongs af te indoktrineer omtrent die “waarheid”. Die stories van die bybel (in die geval van christene) wat voorgegee word as die waarheid. Omdat jy dit glo as kind, en al die grootmense ook glo, kom dit nie by jou op om onafhanklik ‘n opinie te vorm nie. As jy iets nie verstaan nie, dan moet jy geloof he (die heelal, die mens…). As dit nie bestaan nie, moet jy net glo dat dit wel so is. Geloof word dus baie belangrik om mense dinge te laat glo sonder om krities of skepties te wees.

    As jy die moeilike stap neem om geloof een kant te le en bietjie na enige geloof te kyk van ‘n buitestaander se oogpunt af, met ‘n kritiese oog vir die waarheid, dan tref dit jou eendag hoe ongelooflik dit is dat mense so vas glo wat hulle glo. Logies maak dit nie sin nie.

    Die bybel (koran of watookal) is deur mense geskryf, en deur mense vertaal (die mens wat god na sy beeld skep), sodat die mens ‘n handboek kan he wat verduidelik waar ons vandaan kom, en wat ons doel in die lewe is. Aangesien ons die dinge nie kan uitwerk nie, moet ons “geloof” he dat ‘n groter hand betrokke was by die skepping. Dan voel ons beter oor dinge want dan beteken dit dat alles beplan is en daar is ‘n plan vir ons lewe. Ons kan terugsit en gerus voel, ‘n gevoel van vrede, genoeglikheid en berusting. Dan noem ons dit wedergeboorte of watookal hulle dit in jou kerk/geloof noem.

    ————–for the English speaking folks ——–
    Man created god in his image. Einstein said that. He believed that there must be something/somebody in charge of the universe because of how wonderfully everything interacts and appears orderly and therefore must be planned. But that something/somebody is certainly not who we find in the bible, the koran, the church etc… That is man’s way of creating an environment in which they can develop belief, hope, worship, faith etc…

    If you are a christian and want to respond to this, I would love to hear your opinion. Please just don’t use the bible as evidence of your theories, that would be akin to me using a 3 year old bedtime story book by Dr. Seuss as evidence to prove to you that life exists on other planets. And really, really believing it to be true. Rather silly.

    john

    May 31, 2008 at 05:40

  19. Dirk.

    So nou en dan, as ek regtig niks het om te doen nie, dan lees ek julle snert, ou maat ek vind dit humoristies, as jy maar net kan terugstaan en uit ‘n ander se oogpunt jou eie geskrewe kan bekyk, sal jy agterkom dat jy ‘n bang seun in die wereld is en dat jy agter ‘n brawade van afkraak, slegte taal en ‘n powere sin vir humor skuil.
    Self ‘n eerstejaar, “bubblegum” sielkunde student kan agterkom jy’s bang, baie seer en opsoek na die regte antwoorde om jou van alles te verlos….hulle sal jou nog vra oor jou verhouding met jou ouers toe jy klein was…oppas!!!!!!

    Ek gee glad nie om dat jy op die site skryf nie…maar ou maat…jy reply soms sommer aan jou self as niemand anders reply nie…nes ‘n kind wat tantrums gooi en aandag soek.As jy nie wil glo nie…(ok, wie’s ek om jou te oortuig), dan moet jy jou opinies gee en skryf, maar ou maat ek rig ‘n versoek…doen dit in styl, hou op om soos die “village idiot” te lyk en klink…ek meen, ou nathan en jy glo saam in “geen God”, maar hy het darm bietjie “class”…………DONT GO DISSAPOINT ME NOW NATHAN!!!!
    Wat jy nie agterkom nie, is dat jy entlik die Bybel waar bewys….paar duisend jaar gelede, toe dit geskrywe was, was jy al ‘n dwaas genoem….en kyk, hier lees ek dan jou dwaasheid…mmmmm??

    Luister, eks nie hier om jou in die openbaar te verklyneer nie maar ek het ongelukig nie jou pers. email nie, gee maar as jy wil en jys welkom om myne te kry

    Anyway, hoekom sukkel jy om die 3 Enigheid te verstaan??? c’mon, dit was les 3 in sondagskool, selfs kinders verstaan dit….vra my en ek verduidelik dit weer vir jou..

    Altaar aan die brand bid???? ek stem met jou saam, dit sal moerse wees, ek wens ek kon dit ook sien…maar dis maar ‘n kleinigheid, wat van ‘n vis wat ‘n ou sluk??? en weer lewend uitspoeg?? of ‘n gebeurtenis wat die wereld onder water plaas?? of ‘n dooie ou wat stink, weer lewend word??…c’mon, jy kan meer geesdriftig wees.
    Ek het al ‘n paar wonders gesien…ie, ‘n vrou wat in sekondes genees is van Lupus(Nathan sal jou kan verduidelik wat dit is), ‘ ou se been wat langer groei, ‘n fam wat nie kos het nie en 8 mense moet voer vir lunch…hoe die kos vermeerder…ag ou maat, daars baie…..maar die ongeluk is dat dit jou net vir ‘n dag of twee beindruk……omdat dit GEEN geloof verg nie, God(al 3), se dat ons moet Hom glo uit geloof…(1e want dis maklik en reg), maar as jy nie wil, dan uit sy werke(2e want dis moeiliker en van kort duur)

    So, al bid almal die altaar aan die brand, en jys daar om dit te sien, sal jy net se^…”bliksem dis goed, ek wonder hoe’t hulle dit gedoen”, 2 dae daaroor dink en ons dan weer met jy vlak comments en replies probeer beindruk.

    Maar hiers jou goeie nuus……..jy kan al die antwoord kry…dis hoe
    Gaan vanag as dit stil is, op jou eie, sluit jou oe”…en vra God of hy rerig daar is, vra Hom om jou verharte hard sag te maak en in jou diep, binneste, stukkende siel, Hom aan jou te openbaar en jou dormante gees met Syne te vervang.
    Moet dit nie soos ‘n sondagskool seuntjie doen nie en moet ook nie wag om “goed te voel” daaroor nie, maar doen dit soos ‘n volwasse man, wees reg vir ‘n geestelike stoegeveg en as jy gelukkig is sal jy anderkant uitkom met ‘n “mank heup” of iets en weet dat jy te doen het met God die Vader, skepper van hemel en aarde

    Groete ou maat, ek sien uit na die verbeterde, stylvolle, geneesde Dirk se comments, as ek weer een aand niks anders het om te doen nie. PS ek en jy gaan eendag langs mekaar wees as ons ons knee buig en met ons tong bely dat hy die ware God is…moenie daai dag dan nog as die “dorp’s aap” gevang word nie

    TO ALL THE ENGLISH BLOKES THAT GOT LOST IN THIS…..GET A DICTIONARY
    PS, PRAY FOR THIS COUNTRY, GOD is our only hope.
    PS(again), to all the followers of Christ…we are using this site(THANX NATHAN), to spread Gods Word, lets do that even more AND DONT USE IT TO PICK OR GET CAUGHT IN ARGUMENTS WITH PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT TO SEE THE LIGHT.

    (LIZELLE, ON BEHALF OF DIRK, I APPOLOGIZE FOR HIS RUDE, CHILDISH, UNCALLED FOR, COMMENTS)

    cobus

    May 27, 2008 at 23:55

  20. Liewe Lizelle

    Geld en seks – as jy nou die Bybel stories ernstig opvat was nog altyd deel van die
    “boodskap”.

    Tamar was ‘n hoer
    Sara het rond geslaap
    Abraham het die slavin bygekom
    Dawid het die egbreuk gepleeg oor ‘n sexy vrou.
    Salomo het 1000 vroue “gediens”
    Ester het rond geslaap .
    Maria en die Heilige Spook het seks gehad voordat sy getroud was.
    Job het sy dogters bygekom.

    In die werklike lewe is die 6 biljoene mense op aarde ‘n voorbeeld van net een ding – seks.
    Geld hou die 6 Biljoen + aan die lewe.
    …of wil jy nou vir my kom vertel dat jy ‘n Kommunis is geld verag?

    Jou koppie is geïndoktrineerde oor die seks beeld wat Augustinus verkondig het en wat dogma in die Kerk geword het . Jy is heelwaarskynlik ‘n Calvinis .
    Wat het jy teen seks ? is jy miskien oorgewig ? Het gravity al sy rol gespeel ?
    Dalk moet jy ‘n bietjie paaldaans lesse gaan neem om jou kop reg te kry!!

    Onthou , jy kan pous word as jy 10 jaar lank selibaat gelewe het – dalk is jy die volgende mothersupreme!!!!!

    Dirk West

    May 15, 2008 at 10:07

  21. Liewe Nathan,

    Die meeste mans wat die naweek op Angus se plaas was, is Afrikaans sprekend.

    Jy beledig ons Afrikaners met al die vloek woorde wat jy so gerieflik steel. Vloek eerder in jou eie taal.

    Daar was 60 000 Trotse, Sterk, God Vreesende Mans by die saamtrek gewees. Daar is 60 000 vroue en gesinne wat trots is op hul mans. Daar is 60 000 gesinne wat weer na hul God smag. Ek kry jou en jou bende baie jammer want julle mis uit op ‘n herlewing.

    Het jy nie geweet dat GELD en SEKS die afgode van ons tyd is nie? Natuurlik gaan “Die Bende” na die al die geld verwys want dis so belangrik vir julle, hoekom ??? Want geld is jou god!!!!

    Angus, my hart brand van trots vir jou en jou gesin. Jy is die enigste persoon wat kon deur-dring na my eie man toe en hom laat besef waaroor die lewe gaan.

    Angus, gaan voort met jou wonderlike werk, die mense van Suid Afrika hunker na God, nie na die Bulle, Sharks, ens. ens. ens. nie!

    Wees maar versigtig vir die weerlig!

    Liefde groete,

    Lizelle

    Lizelle

    May 9, 2008 at 15:11

  22. The seed for miracle lies not in the difficulty but the impossibility – Angus Buckham

    Met die woorde van Angus daag ek ( soos reeds genoem) alle Mighty Men uit om tot hulle God ( die 3 in een) te bid om ‘n altaar , net soos in die tyd van Elia , aan die brand te bid.

    Ek hoor graag van julle .
    Groete

    Dirk West

    May 9, 2008 at 09:15

  23. Hi Shaughn

    “”Shaughn said, on May 5th, 2008 at 11:54 am
    But if not, then you have my pity! And before you jump in Nathan, be a man and let poor little Dirk answer his own Posts!! “””

    I am waiting .
    The camera is ready .
    Maybe you should pray a little more or even shout a little louder , maybe your gods can’t hear you.
    I am waiting .

    The altar is ready .

    Dirk West

    May 8, 2008 at 13:09

  24. Danie

    Ja , mooi man , baie geluk .
    Nou is jy nog banger . Waarvan wil jy verlos word ?

    Ek wag nou net vir Shaughn dat die 3 gotte vir hom sê waar om die altaar aan die brand te bid.

    Wil jy nie ook sommer vir hom help bid nie…..

    Dirk West

    May 8, 2008 at 10:13

  25. voor die naweek was ek n sondige mens ek was n aggresiewe mens en het ok als gekruteseer wat ek tee gekom het ek was ok baie geweldadig en het beslis nie geduld gehaat nie en vandag 7 may 2008 is ek trots om te se ek is nie meer een van die bogenoemde nie inteendeel het ek n omekeur in my lewe beruik God is almagtig en ek glo dat hy ook dit vir die ongelowiges en louw Christine beplan wat ek daai naweek ervaar het Hy werk aan die situasie in ons land ek kan dit sien die vraag wat wel ontstaan is kan julle dit sien Jesus was verneder by meer as een geleentheid in Sy lewe en Hy het ok gese dat ons as mede gelowiges ook vervolg en verneder sal word so dit pla my nie wat ander mense se of dink nie want ek weet God is aan my kant en ek weet waarna toe ek gaan as ek die tydlike met die ewige verwissel (net so terloops n mens kan nie eers n ordenlike bottel rum koop vir onder R100 nie maar ek betaal eerder R100 om te kamp en om na die Woord van God te gan luister voor ek my geld teen n muur gan uit piepie en dan weet ek ek het iets gekry wat die bottel my nie kan gee nie DIE EWIGE LEWE)

    Dankie oom Angus vir die fantastiese boodskappe wat n met ons gedeel het en mag die Vader n nog verder gebruik om Sy leer op te sweep teen die duister oorlog wat in ons mide is teen te staan jy is daad werklik die generaal van sy leer TROOPS OF GOD MARCH ON AND SPRED THE WORD OF HE WHO WILL COME AND SAVE US AND HE WHO WILL GIVE US ETERNAL LIVE IN ABUNDANCE

    Shalom (gan in vrede )

    Danie

    danie van metzinger

    May 7, 2008 at 13:15

  26. Ek hoop jy kry vinnig ‘n antwoord van jou 3 gotte. Onthou net dat Elia ook bang was was om die Baalprofete te challenge.

    Ek wonder net of jy nie die gotte ook beproef as jy iets in gebed vra – soos bv. gee my vandag my daaglike brood.

    Is dit regtig so moeilik om iets van die almagtige gotte te vra? Foket het die gotte nog iets soos vuurhoudjie ontdek nie?

    ….of is jy te banggat ?

    Ek se weer , jy kan die venue kies ek sal die res bring .

    Ek hoop regtig die gotte gee jou spoedig ‘n antwoord.

    NS. praat die gotte met jou? Hoe klink hulle stemme ? klink god die pappa se stem anders as die spook of liewejeeeeeeeus sin?

    Dirk West

    May 6, 2008 at 09:10

  27. Dirk West said, on May 4th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
    ******Sorry China – van Godiote soos jy wil ek fokol leer .****

    Me no china, me Japan….

    ******Maar ek sal nou ‘n uitsondering maak.

    Ek sal toelaat dat jy my meer van god(gotte) leer.***

    Bit of contradiction but ok, if you wanna….

    *****Ek is bereid om die res van my lewe ‘n dissipel en sendeling van jou gotte te word . Verder is ek bereid om alles wat ek besit te verkoop vir die uitbreiding en verkondiging van god(die 3 gotte) se naam .

    Al wat ek wil hê is dat ons ‘n altaar soos in die tyd van Elia bou en god (die 3 gotte) net soos in die tyd van Elia die altaar aan die brand kom steek. Ek sal vir jou – aangesien jy ‘n klas A1 godioot is- die voorreg gee om tot jou god(3 gotte) te bid om die altaar aan die brand te kom steek.******

    Ok i will pray about it, i wont test God but if he allows it then ok… why not, but then you betta keep your promise then, cause ill have it on black and white!!! Are you truly serious bout it?? what happens if it burns??

    ******Ek sal vir CNN , BBC , SABC , China TV en noem maar op watter ander TV en Radiostasies jy nog daar wil hê – ook uitnooi om hierdie gebeurtenis te kom afneem . As daar koste aan verbonde is sal ek vir ALLES instaan, ook vir enige koste van jou kant af.

    Letterlik kan ons die ware god(gotte) letterlik in sekondes aan die wêreld voorstel en die hele wêreld binne minute bekeer. Ek is seker jy sal nie ‘n probleem hê om die ware god (gotte- of 3 gotte) te openbaar nie. Is dit tog nie immers jou ( Christene)se sendings –opdrag nie ?…..Ek weet hierdie optrede van my sal finansiële skade vir bg. tot gevolg hê, – maar dalk bekeer ons sommer ook vir Anus en sy blinde bende ook!!!!!*****

    Nope dont worry bout it, we are not making a spectical of God, if He says anything, im sure it will be just you and me…Or will be being alone with God be too a scary thing for you??? Is that not why you run as you do?just a thought… any way….

    ****Ek weet nie hoekom mense honderde, indien nie duisend rande, moet spandeer om na drolle soos Anus-Angus ,Benny Hinn, TB Joshua ens te gaan luister nie*****

    Ek self nie. wouldnt mind going to go see Angus, but Benny Hinn im pretty sure might be the biggest joke in Christian circles!!! man he’s off the beaten path… And T.B Joshua is just freaky… people are getting healed and things getting lit on fire, but im not sure where that comes from… He scares me!!! maybe you should go ask him, he seems to have a “gift”… just dont wear anything flamible…

    ****Laat wees asb. wanneer jy gereed is om die altaar aan die brand te bid. Ek is byvoorbeeld dadelik soos in 24/7 gereed om die bal aan die rol te sit.

    Liefde groete in die naam van geen god(gotte)****

    Ok cool. will see. thank you for the well wishes!!! man you actually showing a bit of respect, maybe this IS working!!! Ha Ha Whatever!!!

    You know what the funny thing is Dirk, is that i can almost guarantee if someone did pray an Altar alight, you would still not believe! There would be some exscuse about it being rigged or something. Im tired of your little game here… i will pray for you, and maybe if youre lucky God will deem it fit for you to see what you need to see, or experience what you need to experience, for you to kneel before HJis Majesty!

    But if not, then you have my pity! And before you jump in Nathan, be a man and let poor little Dirk answer his own Posts!!

    Im out and if anything happens while i pray for you Dirk, i will let you know. Until then, cheers.

    GOd bless.

    Shaughn

    May 5, 2008 at 11:54

  28. Shaughn
    You have received only two emails from this site – on 26 and 27 April, both relating to the MMC and comments you have made. You are not on the mailing list. Don’t flatter yourself.

    Nathan Bond

    May 5, 2008 at 11:38

  29. you know what Dirk, except for the blasphemy you are quite funny… i cant reply saying im so upset and what not, cause id be lying i actually am having a giggle..

    before i reply, please just help me, how do i get my email off this sites mailing list?

    Shaughn

    May 5, 2008 at 11:30

  30. “””” Dirk, God Bless you and i hope if you learn anything from this site its a little bit of sense, reason and the ability to understand and stop hating. It might be the English thats a bit much for you, any way””

    Sorry China – van Godiote soos jy wil ek fokol leer .

    Maar ek sal nou ‘n uitsondering maak.

    Ek sal toelaat dat jy my meer van god(gotte) leer.

    Ek is bereid om die res van my lewe ‘n dissipel en sendeling van jou gotte te word . Verder is ek bereid om alles wat ek besit te verkoop vir die uitbreiding en verkondiging van god(die 3 gotte) se naam .

    Al wat ek wil hê is dat ons ‘n altaar soos in die tyd van Elia bou en god (die 3 gotte) net soos in die tyd van Elia die altaar aan die brand kom steek. Ek sal vir jou – aangesien jy ‘n klas A1 godioot is- die voorreg gee om tot jou god(3 gotte) te bid om die altaar aan die brand te kom steek.

    Ek sal vir CNN , BBC , SABC , China TV en noem maar op watter ander TV en Radiostasies jy nog daar wil hê – ook uitnooi om hierdie gebeurtenis te kom afneem . As daar koste aan verbonde is sal ek vir ALLES instaan, ook vir enige koste van jou kant af.

    Letterlik kan ons die ware god(gotte) letterlik in sekondes aan die wêreld voorstel en die hele wêreld binne minute bekeer. Ek is seker jy sal nie ‘n probleem hê om die ware god (gotte- of 3 gotte) te openbaar nie. Is dit tog nie immers jou ( Christene)se sendings –opdrag nie ?

    Ek weet nie hoekom mense honderde, indien nie duisend rande, moet spandeer om na drolle soos Anus-Angus ,Benny Hinn, TB Joshua ens te gaan luister nie . Ek weet hierdie optrede van my sal finansiële skade vir bg. tot gevolg hê, – maar dalk bekeer ons sommer ook vir Anus en sy blinde bende ook!!!!!

    Laat wees asb. wanneer jy gereed is om die altaar aan die brand te bid. Ek is byvoorbeeld dadelik soos in 24/7 gereed om die bal aan die rol te sit.

    Liefde groete in die naam van geen god(gotte)

    Dirk West

    May 4, 2008 at 13:45

  31. No use talking to you. And if i can ask for assistance please Nathan, how do i get my emal off your mailing list?

    Dirk, God Bless you and i hope if you learn anything from this site its a little bit of sense, reason and the ability to understand and stop hating. It might be the English thats a bit much for you, any way….

    Cheers.

    Shaughn

    May 1, 2008 at 08:54

  32. Shaughn

    You quoted Daniel and then you want to have a discussion and trying to help – huh dude ?
    Is everything ok UPSTAIRES with you?

    Nee wat – jy klink soos ‘n gemiddelde brein-dood Sewende-dag Adventis.
    Bid jy ook op die Sabbat soos Exodus gebied of is jy ‘n Sondag sonaanbidder?

    Is ons nou klaar met Hitler en Carl Marks?

    Het jy die gedeelte oor Calvyn geniet ?
    Het jy al jou huiswerk oor Luther gedoen ?

    …. en ek hoop jy het al gekyk hoe Paulus en god se seuntjie liewejeeeeesus hulle weerspreek?

    Nee fokert – kyk eerder vir jou gat en bid vir jou kat se verlossing .

    Nee dit is duidelik hoekom jy Angus se kak glo , want jy weet fokkol van eie geloof af.

    Dirk West

    April 30, 2008 at 22:52

  33. Shaughn
    Every 3.6 seconds someone starves to death and 75% of these deaths are children under the age of 5.
    Yet “God” has time to read this blog and repromand (sic) you on your tone.
    I suggest “God” gets off his ass from behind his cosmic plasma screen and get the fuck on with helping the helpless instead of “repromanding” people like you on their “tone”. And watching spuds grow.
    “God”. What a useless idiot!
    And, in case you’re wondering, I am most decidedly not apologizing for my “tone”.

    Nathan Bond

    April 30, 2008 at 20:47

  34. God has repromanded me on my tone in the writing.anything written by me is in a good spirit. I apologise if the tone in the writing might be misunderstood. I really do not want to fight with you Mr West. I am discussing. And in essence trying to help. Sorry if it seemed any other way..

    Shaughn

    April 30, 2008 at 12:56

  35. Mr West,

    This conversation has digressed again. You guys wrote this page to try and belittle the efforts of Angus Bachan. Aligning him with the likes of Benny Hinn( whom i agree is not of God, and could think of a few good Afrikaans words that would suit his description even better!!🙂 ) You not only were obviously misplaced in your criticism of a man, who has done more for starving orphans and children, widows etc than what most people in S.A have. He is someone who is at least taking his beliefs and making them practical the way a person should. I personally feel like a hypocrite in comparison!

    Your attacks had no basis in Logic, which if you looked past your pride, you would notice. Your actual qualm is not with Mr Bachan but with Christianity, because there is someone or something related to Christianity that has hurt you.(you would obviously never admit this) So you insight Hate speech, and criticize other peoples belief. You my friend can be lucky that you are not attacking Islam, for you would then have a bit of a problem…

    I dont understand how attacking and profaining another mans belief can satisfy you so??? well actually I can, because i understand the roots, but you have proven that i would not be able to even discuss that with you, cause your mind is closed and before a person can talk you swear and profaine making a discussion impossible(hate does this).. and i will not judge you, we all go through this.

    I too had a decision to make about God, and had times of torment where i could not believe in such a thing. So much so that I could not sleep for months(i actually thought i would go insane). I looked at all options and studied (like a typical human with my “intelect”) the phylosophical points of view and the viability through “science” of the possibility of God. I was however, like all others never able to prove either way by means of my intellect that there was or was not a God. I then had a personal encounter with God that, I in no way could ignore.. and made a choice. So before you call me “godidioot” like you love doing, realise that i in no way took becoming a Christian lightly and have made a decision based on what i know.

    You were so keen on proof and when someone actually stepped forward and gave you something to look at, you blatantly ignored the facts provided. I qouted the book of Daniel, which is so accurate that liberal authors cannot accept that it was written 3-400 years before the events. Even though the proof of this dating is plain to see. I could qoute scripture, that looking at the time we are living in, would raise the hair on the back of your neck! but these points are ignored.

    I will admit out of experience that it is the toughest thing to believe. not only because of what your senses tell you, but because of “Christians”. As people a lot of Christians are the nastiest, most money hungry, fraudulent, darn right evil people you will ever encounter!! And i Know that!! i have seen and heard and experienced things, that made me honestly want to cry, all coming from “believers”. I cannot and have not Judged them, becaus that is not my job. But what they do is not a reflection on Christianity, it is a reflection on misplaced doctrine, theology and the abusive side of Human beings!!! as the bible says “mans fallen nature”

    Jesus’ teaching was not that of Luther or Calvin. Jesus taught of peace, love and the Grace of God! His two great commandments prove this. “Love the Lord your God, with all your heart and all your soul, and love your neighbour as yourself” Wow!! there is no hate or negativity, or any misplaced theology there! that is love, to love everyone the way you love yourself! I even love you, believe it or not!

    You tell how these men tortured and killed…. many(if not the majority) of their tortured and martyred were Jesus following Christians who refused to follow their Heretical theology! Burned at the stake… You want to compare marxist teachings, to Jesus’ teaching? Marx insighted Hate, Jesus Love. im sorry even you can see that.

    You say i should put my money where my mouth is,well do you believe in something so much, that you would die for it??? 11 of 12 Apostles did, they believed (after seeing) that Jesus was raised from the dead, so greatly that they were tortured and murdered for those beliefs. The only one who was not, was John, who survived being boiled in oil, to only continue preaching Gods word after his torture until he was 101.. which Jesus in fact predicted would be the case. Maybe 1 or 2 mad men would die for a lie, but not 11… Paul Himself a Christian murderer, after meetin the Lord was willing to die for Him and did!!!

    You call for sense, and action. Angus Bachan provides both. You call for a world, that is peaceful, yet you hate with passion! Im sorry any common sense and decency from your side is hard to expect and see through your writing. At least Nathan Bond is Coherent and sensible in his writing(decency is another story!lol) you do not even try to communicate. You just hate!

    God loves you, even if you hate him.

    Shaughn

    April 30, 2008 at 12:47

  36. Shaughn said, on April 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
    I could have guessed you would have qouted Marx… You know how many murdorous tirants came from his teaching

    Shaughn

    I believe you boycott all merchandise coming from Communist Mainland CHINA.
    You are a fool bro !!!

    Please put your money where your mouth is!!!!!

    Dirk West

    April 29, 2008 at 22:24

  37. Dear Sir

    May I quote John Calvin , the father of the Reformed theology and Protestant Church father.

    PS ___ see the end note for more killings and atrocities committed by Protestant Church fathers

    Calvin forced the citizens of Geneva to attend church services under a heavy threat of punishment. Since Calvinism teaches that God forces the elect to believe, it is no wonder that Calvin thought he could also force the citizens of Geneva to all become the elect.

    Not becoming one of the elect was punishable by death or expulsion from Geneva. Calvin exercised forced regeneration on the citizens of Geneva because that is what his theology teaches.

    Michael Servetus, was Spanish scientist. He was credited with the discovery of the pulmonary circulation of the blood from the right chamber of the heart through the lungs and back to the left chamber of the heart.

    He was Calvin’s longtime friend , angered Calvin by returning a copy of Calvin’s writings, Institutes, with critical comments in the margins. He travelled to Geneva where he attended Calvin’s Sunday preaching service on August 13.

    Calvin promptly had Servetus arrested and charged with heresy for his disagreement with Calvin’s theology.

    Calvin ignored pleas and Servetus was burned at the stake on October 27, 1553.

    Servetus was screaming as he was literally baked alive from the feet upward and suffered the heat of the flames for 30 minutes before finally succumbing to one of the most painful and brutal death methods possible.

    Servetus had written a theology book, a copy of which Calvin had strapped to the chest of Servetus.
    The flames from the burning book rose against Servetus’ face as he screamed in agony.

    John Calvin was proud of his killing of Servetus, bragging and celebrating. Calvin also had thirty-four (34) women burned at the stake after accusing them of causing a plague that had swept through Geneva in 1545. John Calvin’s actions were very paganistic like his mentor, Saint Augustine.

    John Calvin had no love, no compassion, no patience and no tolerance for those who did not believe his Institutes. Criticism of Calvin’s Institutes was considered heresy for which the sentence was death by burning at the stake.

    To his dying day Calvin preached and taught from his works.

    *******Do you want the atrocities and murders committed the great Protestant and man of God – Maartin Luther ? Just ask I shall mail it to you with the greatest of love.

    Dirk West

    April 29, 2008 at 22:14

  38. I could have guessed you would have qouted Marx… You know how many murdorous tirants came from his teaching.. 100000’s of people believing in their God were tortured and killed due to the very man you are qouting… next thing you will be qouting Hitler!!

    Any how.. no chance in reasoning with you,it does not seem to be in your capability. God Bless you. and i hope what ever hurt that is driving you will heal…

    Shaughn

    Shaughn

    April 29, 2008 at 17:03

  39. 1. Lourens Botha said, on April 29th, 2008 at 11:01 am

    Believers in God go to heaven

    Lourens

    Jy maak seker ‘n grap?

    Jy kan maar glo soos Angus en Bennie Hinn , maar as jy nie uitverkies is nie kak jy. Lees jy dan nie jou dik swartboek met die baie bladsye in nie???????

    Dalk kak jy nog eendag ou swaar !!!

    Dink net hoe de moer in gaan jy wees oor alles waarop jy op “uitgemis “ het… Jy sal die joke in hell wees , tot ou Niek sal vir jou lag broer !!!!!

    En die 3 gotte ook.

    Dirk West

    April 29, 2008 at 16:15

  40. Lou
    Ek is nie kwaad vir jou opmerking nie , elkeen is vry om sy opinie te hê.

    Maar weet jy waaroor is ek de moer in , juis oor die feit dat jy my met jou godiote christene vergelyk. … almal van julle is brein-dood , geïndoktrineerde , mal , stupid , simpel , dom –onnosel englo blindweg aan die 3 (gotte terwyl jy/julle nie eers weet waar kom jul 3 gotte vandaan nie )en boonop ook nog glo dat jy in space kan rondvlieg sonder ‘n space suite soos julle dink liewe Jeeeeeesus gaan eendag weer kom. Jissssssis !!!!!!

    Foket ou Lou – en daar is nie eers pille vir julle nie!!!!!

    Dirk West

    April 29, 2008 at 16:08

  41. Dirk West & Natan Bond

    Hoe oud is julle? 0

    As julle die moed het sal julle dit korrek deurgee. +0

    IK. -0

    Redenasie vermoë.0

    Tersiëre opleiding.0

    Lou

    April 29, 2008 at 11:09

  42. Dirk West

    Bad people do not go to heaven
    Good people do not go to heaven
    Believers in God go to heaven

    Lourens Botha

    April 29, 2008 at 11:01

  43. Shaughn

    Talk faith until you get it.

    Talk salvation until you get it.

    Keep on believing in the man on the moon until you get it.

    ….. yes bro it is cometh …

    …behold he is cometh with the clouds … keep on talking until you believe it.

    …keep on talking about the trinity until you believe it….even you know it is bull-shit.

    Religion is the opium for the masses- ( Carl Marx.)

    You are caught up in AMERICAN Bible Belt Bull-shit, right here in South Africa, by our own Bennie Hinn called ANGUS.

    Fuck God

    Dirk West

    April 28, 2008 at 09:58

  44. ‘comunications’ needs another m. it’s communications.

    Jansie Blom

    April 27, 2008 at 23:26

  45. Fisher
    I am writing the book…
    I have no interest in “dedicating my life and my existence to disproving God”. It can’t be done. God does exist – in the minds of people who are too scared, too lazy or too dumb to attempt to understand better.
    I am simply indicating the agnosy that is “God”.

    Nathan Bond

    April 27, 2008 at 08:06

  46. Come on okes, POST!!! I would love to read on-

    I would like to add somthing.

    If you realy do not belive in God , His Son (Word of God) and the Holy Spirit -I mean, NOT AT ALL, (1) and you are not lazy by nature, you are motivated, an achiever and you realy love people {helping the poor, sick unfortunate, mentaly chalanged and so on}(Having this kind personality you will obviously not lie and make up things) and you feel you want to do somthing good by helping the world to be freed from this “misconseption of beliving in God” (2) Dedicate your life, your existance to disproving Him.

    If you do not fit the personality mentioned in (1). Sit down and keep your big mouth shut !! You are making a fool out of yourself.
    If you fit (1) but do not accept the challenge (2) Sit down, keep your big mouth shut, you do not know the facts.

    If you are fit for the challenge, and you accept it, dig into it, do your resurch – then write the book !!!

    Fisher

    April 26, 2008 at 22:16

  47. Hey man,

    Well your question is easy to reply to. When a person becomes a Christian two things occur-
    1. You feel a great relief, that you are born again. A new person, living in the world, but not having to be part of the World. That makes a person really grateful, you really feel like shouting it to the world. Its kinda like when you meet your wife, fall in love…. you wanna shout it to the world!

    2. Secondly its part of what The Lord commands us to do. To speak out our faith, and share it to the world. Cause God does not want anyone to perish, but wants all to come to Him through His son Jesus Christ.

    Your Second question is also easy to reply to.

    1. The dfinition of faith is-Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    In order for God to show you any physical evidence that He is real you must first have faith( which must occur from things unseen-eg I just knew in my heart that God existed, it just made sense to me and then I gave my heart from that)
    I know that makes it tougher, but that makes it real… You arent just following God because you see things but because You want to!! Then God brings in a lot more supernatural occurences in your life(sometimes). I mean people with unequal legs get prayed for and in front of your eyes their legs equal out. Others can walk when they were paralised… etc…
    The biggest problems are that these things are abused by “Pastors” like Benny Hinn and Co, who do more damage to Christianity than good(not that I should judge,but God will one day). Any Bible believing Christian are adeened by what they do..

    So in other words what im saying to you, no God wont defend Himself to you, He has no need. You are just a human, and unfortunately a lot of Christians believe they are doing good, when they jump down peoples throats and “defend” God… And people get offended, and that is exactly what the Devil uses to Bait a Christian.

    So my conclusion is that Christians will always Proclaim God, and He will never appear to you to defend Himself. That leaves us in a situation that unless you were to convert to Christianity, there will always be a sticking point. That is unless people, instead of swearing at and degrading each others beliefs, we ask questions and discuss and act civilised and learn things they did not know about each other. I thank God that that is what you and I have chosen to do!

    I look forward to your reply my friend.

    God bless,
    Shaughn

    Shaughn

    April 25, 2008 at 16:20

  48. Hi Shaughn

    Why must you tell me how awesome god (the gods) is .
    Can’t he do it himself?

    Why must you defend the god(s).
    Can’t he do it himself?

    Dirk West

    April 25, 2008 at 13:37

  49. wow your commentary has really digressed… faced with the truth one can but “fight” or flee i guess… God is real Mr West. Scioence is proving it more and more as technology improves. But you are just fulfilling the bible as we move along…so i will not argue with you, its not in my nature.
    So with utter respect I say God Bless you. MAy you and your family find the peace and the Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ. May you prosper and know that true happiness is through Him.

    God bless you,
    Shaughn

    P.S. if you would like to have a look at something interesting on the net, heres a link.
    http://www.allaboutthejourney.org

    it is scientific and takes philosophy and all other viewpoints of God and shows some really interesting things.

    Shaughn

    April 25, 2008 at 09:04

  50. Dewalt said, on April 24th

    God owes nothing to man, man owes everything to God. Without Him, and the people pleading to Him, this world would have been destroyed long ago.

    Fuck this god (gods) he is an asshole despot overpowering your strayed imagination.

    Dirk West

    April 25, 2008 at 08:09

  51. Dewalt said, on April 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
    You already know HIM, fear HIM and seek HIM. . . . . . . just accept Him

    Why are you afraid of the god- the gods ?

    Dirk West

    April 25, 2008 at 07:57

  52. Shaughn said :” “I have the interview with him if you would like me to email it to you.

    No sir , I am not interested in human bull-shit stories about the gods.

    Dirk West

    April 25, 2008 at 07:51

  53. Dear Nathan
    What has happend to you…………makes you bitter and angry

    Stop fighting the only ONE that can heal your pain

    You already know HIM, fear HIM and seek HIM. . . . . . . just accept Him

    We all pray for you

    PS: God has work for you: He wants you to tell your story to thousands of people. . . .
    “the seed for a miracle lies not in difficulty, but impossibility !”

    Dewalt

    April 24, 2008 at 14:15

  54. So then wether you believe in Jesus as God or not, you will have to concede that the Bible is a pretty amazing book. Accurate and a living word, straight from the mouth of God himself!!

    And this Jesus Feller is quite a remarkable man. Mahat magandi, who was not a christian, was of the opinion that if one followed just the sermon on the mount, that monumental change, love and peace would be what follows…
    Jesus had a heart for Children, and the poor,sick and possesed. He in fact he calls them His brothers! Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.
    It is not God who causes these things to come to pass it is Man in his fallen state.
    An awesome man if you cant wrap it round your mind that He is God.

    Now guys, just a word of caution, you openly mock and chastize the Inspirer of this book. The Jesus who defies Maths and statistical chance, who preaches peace and Love, and calls the poor His brothers. That is just not cricket. You ask for peace and love and a God that will save the world, but you epitomize the opposite of what you ask. You mock, and are negative, and have no respect for people who in whatever degree are trying to make a difference.

    God owes nothing to man, man owes everything to God. Without Him, and the people pleading to Him, this world would have been destroyed long ago.

    You are in my prayers, not only that you might come to repentance and a living relationship with the Lord, but in the least that you might stop inciting negativity and embrace a loving outlook on the world.

    No correspondance is complete without the Gospel, so if you would like to hear the “Good News” please ask. Any other questions or help, please feel free.

    God Bless,
    Shaughn

    Shaughn

    April 24, 2008 at 13:15

  55. Theres just one of HUNDREDS of Prophecies which have been fullfilled out of the bible.
    A whole load which were Fullfilled by Jesus ( or what was it you called Him)

    Lets look at some science or maths then my friends-

    Professor Peter Stoner (1888-1980) discovered the same thing. Stoner was Chairman of the Departments of Mathematics and Astronomy at Pasadena City College until 1953, and Chairman of the Science Division of Westmont College from 1953 to 1957. Stoner calculated the probability of one man fulfilling only a handful of the over 300 Messianic prophecies. In 1944, he published his research results in Science Speaks: Scientific Proof of the Accuracy of Prophecy and the Bible. Stoner concluded that the probability of one person fulfilling just eight of the specific prophecies was one chance in 1017 (one followed by 17 zeros). How about one person fulfilling just 48 of the over 300 prophecies? Stoner calculated these odds at one chance in 10157 — way beyond statistical impossibility! 1

    OK, this can’t be considered true statistical science… Can it?

    Actually, the American Scientific Affiliation gave Stoner’s work their stamp of approval:

    The manuscript for Science Speaks has been carefully reviewed by a committee of the American Scientific Affiliation members and by the Executive Council of the same group and has been found, in general, to be dependable and accurate in regard to the scientific material presented. The mathematical analysis included is based upon principles of probability which are thoroughly sound and Professor Stoner has applied these principles in a proper and convincing way.

    Shaughn

    April 24, 2008 at 12:48

  56. Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in all the world as a witness to all nations. And then the end shall come.

    The Lord Jesus does not ask us to convince you, that He is God. He tells us to take the kingdom message* to all the nations so the end can come.

    *That He is God and He is coming back wether you like it or not, you can choose to be on His side or not, but either way He is Coming back to Judge you!

    So in other words if you have heard the Word then you have not an exscuse!

    You guys also go on to qoute Mr Bachan’s Doctrinal statement. Take notice of the one statement especially for use in your search for proof of God.
    ” believe that the Bible is the inspired, infallible and authoritative Word of God;”

    Prophecy my friends. It comes true out of His word wether you like it or not!!!
    An example if you like-

    The book claims to have been written sometime in the 6th century BC, but because of the accuracy of its detailed predictions, Daniel’s critics insist that it must have been written after the events described. They contend that it must have been written sometime after c.160 BC. Nevertheless, Flavius Josephus, court historian for three successive Roman Emperors, documents Alexander the Great receiving a copy of Daniel upon his annexation of Jerusalem in the autumn of 332 BC (Antiquities of the Jews XI, chapter viii, paragraphs 3-5). Furthermore, according to both the pseudo-aristeas account and Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews XII, chapter ii), Ptolemy Philadelphus (308-246 BC) commissioned the translation of the Septuagint (a.k.a. the LXX) from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BC. Daniel is included in the LXX. Daniel is also included among the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) which date from about 200 BC (the oldest Daniel manuscript, 4Q114, dating from the late 2nd Century BC).

    Bible Prophecy – Daniel 11
    Having established the credibility of Daniel, let’s compare Bible prophecy found in Chapter 11 of that book with accepted secular history. The book of Daniel describes with incredible accuracy the fate of the Grecian Empire; how upon Alexander’s death his empire would be divided into four portions, the conflicts between two of these divisions, Egypt and Syria, and the affect which these wars would have upon the nation of Israel which was situated between the two. In fact, many of the conflicts were over the control of Palestine (Israel). The Syrian kings are referred to as the “kings of the North” (that is, north of Israel, the prophecy being given from Israel’s perspective); the Egyptian kings are referred to as the “kings of the South” (south of Israel). Let’s go through the first 20 verses to prove the point. Each passage is followed by secular history which is included in the brackets. There are several secular online encyclopedias if you’re interested in looking up any of the following information for yourself.

    Daniel 11:1-2: “In the first year of Darius the Mede, I arose to be an encouragement and a protection for him. And now I will tell you the truth. Behold, three more kings are going to arise in Persia. Then a fourth will gain far more riches than all of them; as soon as he becomes strong through his riches, he will arouse the whole empire against the realm of Greece.”

    [Darius the Mede was viceroy in Babylon during the reign of Cyrus II (a.k.a. Cyrus the Great, who ruled from c.550-530 BC; Note: the dates provided here and following represent a period of monarchial reign, not the ruler’s actual life-span). The three kings which succeed Cyrus were Cambyses II (530-521 BC), Smerdis (521 BC) and Darius I (521-485 BC), son of Hystaspes. The fourth king, Xerxes (486-465 BC), excelling in wealth and power, launched an elaborate campaign against Greece.]

    Daniel 11:3-4: “And a mighty king will arise, and he will rule with great authority and do as he pleases. But as soon as he has arisen, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out toward the four points of the compass, though not to his own descendants, nor according to his authority which he wielded, for his sovereignty will be uprooted and given to others besides them.”

    [The “mighty king” was Alexander the Great (336-323 BC) who, shortly after conquering the Persian Empire, died abruptly at the age of 32. His empire was not bequeathed to his children (who were murdered) but instead was divided up amongst his generals (the Diadochi). Four lesser kingdoms emerged from the rubble of Alexander’s empire: Greece, Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt.]

    Shaughn

    April 24, 2008 at 12:38

  57. Mr Bond, West and tag alongs…

    Firstly this inane attempt at phsycological battery is at the utmost of the level of High school kid. My man if you want to get a reaction, at least make it one that might “shake the foundations” of someones faith.

    You know i find it funny that (Mr west) you keep on asking for proof, or a word, or something “supernatural” to occur. Yet you dont have the know how or “Intellect” to disprove Gods exsistance. Oh you might qoute the theory of evolution, or the big bang, or whatever tickles your morbid fancy. Yet men, who are of superior “intelect” to you can do what they like, but the evidence just does not disprove anything.

    Backing for that claim? Well we will take the case of Mr Anthony Flew, what was he known as again??? Oh ya the “worlds most famous atheist”… hmm theres something to think about, that someone whom every single atheist would have backed to take on any Christian or religious Philosopher in a debate, is through burden of proof, now a deist…. and before you run to wikipedia and look for the definition let me help;

    Deism: Deism is a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of God from reason and personal experience. (The mention of God in this article is meant more as a Creator than as the Abrahamic God)

    I have the interview with him if you would like me to email it to you.
    I know next you will say he does not believe in the God of Christians, but that is because like you he cant get past the problem of Evil. But i Pray that before he dies he can get over his own(brilliant) mind and see the truth.

    Wow, isnt that weird. Through logic he can see no choice but for the fact there is a God.( Iguess that means us Christians arent as “DOF” as you suppose) And mind you that which swayed him was science…. So there goes any chance of you using Science in your (rather inferior by comparison to Flews) “argument.”

    Now my friends comes the reality of the situation.

    read my next message

    Shaughn

    April 24, 2008 at 12:23

  58. Jy is heeltemaal reg Marius, meng jou met die semels………………..
    Ons kan maar net vir hulle bid en vertrou dat God hulle genadig sal wees.

    Pim

    April 24, 2008 at 08:30

  59. Hi

    Aan almal van julle wat my uitnooi om vir god /gotte te ontmoet – baie dankie , ek is gereed.

    Net ‘n paar vragies voordat ons die god gaan ontmoet .

    1. Watter god/gotte gaan julle aan my voorstel?
    2. Wat is sy naam?
    3. Kan hy soos in die tyd van Elia ‘n altaar vir ons aan die brand steek?
    4. Mag ek foto’s van hom neem ?
    5. Hoe moet ek hom aanspreek – U edele , of Ooo grote God of die drie-enige gotte – of Jirrre jeeeesus .
    6. Gaan ek sy vrou ook ontmoet ? Het sy ‘n boobjob gehad? Is sy ook ‘n god?
    7. Waar gaan ons die god of gotte ontmoet ?
    8. Kan ons dit ‘n bring en braai maak ?

    Nee man , baie dankie vir die uitnodiging , ek sien regtig uit om die god/gotte te ontmoet want ek wou al lankal vir hom/hulle ‘n paar vragies praat.

    Dirk West

    April 24, 2008 at 08:11

  60. Manne,

    Hoekom mors julle nou eintlik julle tyd om eers komentaar te lewer op Nathan en Dirk se snert? Dit is presies wat hulle wil he. Dit bekragtig hulle swakkheid, en maak van ons wat God-vreesend is net so laf soos wat hulle is, Hulle weet al klaar waaroor hierdie byeenkoms gaan, en my persoonlikke mening is dat hulle of jaloers of bang is. Nathan is die tiepiese aandag soeker, wil reaksie uit sy medemens uit dwing met wat hy in sy goddelose verstand seker sien as ‘n tiepe moderne intelektuele komentaar, sonder nederheid vir die Waarheid van Godsdiens.

    Laat hulle rus, laat hulle God en sy seun Jesus bespot, hulle het die keuse om so te maak net soos wat ons almal keuse het om of te glo of nie te glo nie. Ons weet almal hoe kragtig gebed is as dit in die Here se naam geoffer is. So in plaas van om verder tyd te mors op hierdie klien mannetjies se web blad, kom ons se liewers ons gebede vir hulle, en los hulle met hulle eie stryd.

    Onse Hemelse Vader, gee vir ons die krag om die pad te loop wat U vir ons wys, om te kan dra wat U vir ons gee om te dra, en laat U Heilige Gees neer daal op hierdie manne wat so graag nie wil glo nie.
    Ons vra dit in U Heilige naam aleenlik, Dankie Vader. Amen.

    Marius

    April 23, 2008 at 15:28

  61. Dirk,

    Ek het verseker reg gekies!! Geen twyfel. Sy hand van genade in my lewe is onmisbaar.

    Ken jy self die diepere details (die wortels/onstaan/mission) van dit waaroor Islam, Shamanisme, Hinduisme, Buddisme, Satanisme, New Age, etc. staan?
    Ek het genoeg inligting daaroor gehad om my keuse te kan maak vir God en die vryheid, vergifnis, vrede en vervulling wat daarmee saamgaan.

    Soos ek vroeër gestel het; Ek kan jou nie tot geloof in God redeneer nie, net so kan jy ook nie vir God in ‘n boks van definiesie(s) vasdruk nie. Hy is ondeurgrondelik, onnaspeurlik. Dus sal jy Hom nooit intelektueel tot reg kan beskyf nie. Net as jy dink jy verstaan wie Hy is, dan openbaar Hy nog meer van Homself aan jou.

    En nee, nie in die kerk van my ouers nie. Dit was my eie keuse.

    God kommunikeer op verskillende maniere met sy kinders. Nie almal het ‘n hoorbare stem belewenis nie. Die detail daarvan is sinneloos indien jy nie die bestaan van God erken nie. Om jou vraag te antwoord; ja, ek weet wanneer Hy met my praat.

    Wat “grof, sag of stadig” betref gaan ek nie reageer op lasterlike gespot nie.
    Dit is immers Vader waarmee jy die spot dryf!! Jy sal self eendag antwoord vir jou opmerkings.

    Hermann Croucamp

    April 23, 2008 at 15:26

  62. Dirk West en trawante (almal wat soos jy dink), ons het al die bewyse wat nodig is, in die Bybel. Julle kan maar opgee om ons andersins te probeer oortuig. Ten minste weet ons julle glo ook in ons GOD, anders sou julle nie so bang gewees het vir Hom on julle self te oortuig dat Hy nie bestaan nie. Ek wou julle uitnooi na volgende jaar se saamtrek, maar ek dink dit is beter dat julle NIE saamgaan nie want ek is nie seker of julle die skaamte wat oor julle sal kom kan hanteer nie.
    Ons wat daar was, en selfs die wat nie daar was nie, bid vir julle, want ons wil nie dat julle verlore gaan nie.
    Groete in Christus

    Pim

    April 23, 2008 at 15:19

  63. DAX het gese:

    GOD IS LOVE –nogal !!!!

    I kill … I wound … I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. — Deuteronomy 32:39-42

    How many people did God kill in the Bible?

    http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-many-has-god-killed.html

    Dirk West

    April 23, 2008 at 13:17

  64. Neels

    Jy se: ‘PS. The devil and is troops actually do believe in God, even they know who He is. They just do not serve HIM.”

    Hoe weet jy dit – enige bewyse?

    Afterall – kan jy die duiwel blameer dat hy sy gat aan god afsmeer . ( nou as hy wel bestaan het)

    Dirk West

    April 23, 2008 at 12:59

  65. Herman

    Jy het gesê: “Die proses wat intelektuele mense deurgaan om tot die punt te kom om God te aanvaar sonder om alles uit mekaar te trek en te probeer verstaan of te verklaar is nie ‘n ligtelike saak nie. Hulle val nie sommer hals-oor-kop vir enige iets of iemand nie.

    Jissis Herman , maar dit is presies wat jy doen , jy val dan vir die stront en persone.
    Hoe het jou intellektuele omwandeling jou dan nie by die Tokolosie of Islam uit gebring nie? Islam is tans groter as die Katolieke .

    Het jy reg gekies ou broer?

    Is jy ook soos die meerderheid gelowiges in die kerk van jou ouers? Intellektueel inderdaad !!!!of is dit eerder navolging ?

    Kan jy ook die stem van die Here soos Angus , TB Joshua en Bennie Hinn hoor?
    Het die drie gotte verskillende stemme , praat hulle grof en stadig , kan die gotte regtig al Afrikaans praat?

    Dirk West

    April 23, 2008 at 12:56

  66. God is Love,For us to love ,we need God.No God ,No Love ,Real Love .
    Show this to those whom you think you show love.
    God is the answer for us all to be able to love,Love so that we care enough to get off our butts and do something.
    Love that empowers others ,Love that changes lives,Love that only God deserves and love that God can only give.
    JESUS,JESUS OUR KING.
    AMEN,AMEN.

    DAX

    April 22, 2008 at 21:00

  67. To all who do not believe.
    It saddens my heart terribly to hear comments like this but understands where you come from. All of us in this world was born on your side.What a lonely life you must have and without peace. I know, Iwas there.For this reason I will not even try to argue, it is not WORTH the effort.No argument can change you, only He who you are fighting.
    I PRAY that you will stop fighting Him and meat GOD before you die and not after.

    I was there this weekend, not to see Angus, but to meet with GOD ALMIGHTY in a differant way than my normal everyday. I do not care if the money goes to his pocket or not. If it does (And I know it doesent) it will be between him and God and not for me to judge.
    May prayer is that the Peace and Grace of the Living God overwhelm you instead of His judgement.

    Hope you have a good day.

    Neels Blomerus
    PS. The devil and is troops actually do believe in God, even they know who He is. They just do not serve HIM.

    Neels Blomerus

    April 22, 2008 at 20:45

  68. Shame to this lost soul Nathan, must think himself to actually be Bond, James Bond, i will rather go through life Believing in Jesus as my God and Saviour and seeing his work in my everyday life, than not believe and have to face his wrath one day, Nathan i believe that you need your soul prayed for. Maybe your childish comments and un-belief is the begining of all the shit in your life. Good Luck non believer.

    Craig

    April 22, 2008 at 20:41

  69. Nathan, Dirk, Jan

    Yip, looking at the two lists, it seems as though the country needs healing, that is a process…not “a finger snap” miracle….

    We’ve tried everything else, money for the poor (lotto), new Goverment, new President, burglar-bars, high walls, gun laws, aids hospitals…..name it, we’ve tried it all……. i don’t see healing…You??

    So lets try our last option…GOD, and if you’re serious about the country and our lifes in general in this country, you’ll try Him too, its not as if you have any alternatives left… do you???, go check Jer 35;15 (i know you have a bible)…you might realize that, you are, in some way, slowing the whole process down….it will hapen you’ll just be left out!!

    C’mon guys, stop showing us your poor vocabulary, get serious about this country, go ask God personally about the issues….you will be surprised about the answers you’ll get from Him.

    Cheers

    Cobus

    April 22, 2008 at 20:02

  70. I refer the faithful to my posts MMC + 1 and MMC + 2 – one day and two days after the “Mighty Men Conference” Goddy is still fast asleep. Rape and pillage and murder are on the up while Goddy is no doubt planning another bumper spud crop.

    Did not the “Mighty Men” ask Goddy to “heal” our land?

    “God” is useless. “God” is the worst idea ever.

    NB

    Nathan Bond

    April 22, 2008 at 16:16

  71. I actually don’t feel that, Dirk,Nathan,Jan really believe what they are saying is true,to be really honest I think you boys just enjoy getting under people’s skin. I was at the conference, I appreciate all the hard work that went into the camp, I saw Angus Buchan’s heart for God, men and South Africa.I think one needs to realize that farmers gave up their land for the conference,and that is why I happily paid R100.Work out the costs boys. And then Dirk,Nathan,Jan if there is really no God, I challenge you to step outside in the next thunderstorm and shout all the things you have been writing to the God you don’t believe in.Oh yes get witnesses. I love the Great Potato farmer in the sky.

    Sheldon Hallis

    April 22, 2008 at 15:36

  72. Nathan / Dirk

    Al wat ek kan sê is dat jy saai wat jy maai. As jy enigsins die konsep van saai in konteks kan verstaan sal jy weet dat dit oor baie meer gaan as 60000 wat bymekaar kom vir ‘n “feel good” event. Dit wat die naweek gedeponeer was in elke man teenwoordig se gees gaan baie meer impak veroorsaak as wat selfs R6mil in ‘n township kan doen.

    Wat jul (en Jan Lessing) nie in berekening bring nie is dat die geloof wat jul so slander onder andere gefokus is om te saai in mense se lewens soos bv. weeskinders, weduwees, AIDS sorg instansies, etc.

    Ek is seker dat as jul die finansiele state van die naweek se MMC kan betrag sal jul vind dat niks daarvan na Angus Buchan eie sak toe is nie. Dieselfde geld vir die events wat volg by verskeie rugby stadions. As jy self by sy plaas was sal jy gou besef dat hy en sy seuns ‘n baie suksesvolle boerdery het wat aan al hul behoeftes voorsien.

    Ek weet mens kan elke item/konsep van verskeie rigtings “to death” redeneer of teenstaan. Ek stem saam met Francois dat ons jul nie met redenasie kan oortuig nie. Jy word nie in ‘n verhouding met God drie-enig geredeneer nie. Dis ‘n hart saak wat jy net vir jouself kan besluit. Net deur self in verhouding met God te staan sal jy ten volle kan verstaan.

    Jul verwys na Christene as “soft in the head”; daar is baie strek intelektuele mense wat ten volle in Christus glo. Die proses wat intelektuele mense deurgaan om tot die punt te kom om God te aanvaar sonder om alles uit mekaar te trek en te probeer verstaan of te verklaar is nie ‘n ligtelike saak nie. Hulle val nie sommer hals-oor-kop vir enige iets of iemand nie.

    Dit is my gebed dat God die Vader julle harte sal aanraak en jul oë sal oopmaak om te kan sien wie Hy is en dat Hy jul onvoorwaardelik lief het. Dat elkeen van jul Hom waarlik sal ontmoet.

    LW:
    Ek kan self getuig van Sy liefde en “persistence”; ek was immers self ‘n sterk literale, intelektuele atheis voor God Hom aan my in liefde openbaar het.

    Hermann Croucamp

    April 22, 2008 at 14:14

  73. To reason with guys like Nathan and Dirk is of no use and sadly a waste of time. They are simply proving the Bible true when it says that the god of this age blinds the unbelievers.

    What I will rather do is encourage the genuine thousands that flocked to hear what the Lord had laid on Angus’ heart. It’s our responsibility not to leave our passion for the Lord on mount Sinai but rather to touch an obviously dark and depraved world with the Light that lives in us.

    What I do want to mention to those 2 cynical fellows though, is that the small amounts of money that we spent to experience a touch from the Lord pales into comparison to tithes and offerings that we all give to the Lord’s work which in a big way includes the poor and helpless. If you guys were there you would have noticed that many of the people that attended were not down on their luck, delusional men looking for a crutch but rather pillars of the business world, doctors and sportsmen including Springbok rugby players.

    David said about Goliath, “who is this uncircumcised Philistine that he defy the army of the living God” We all, you guys included, know what happened to Goliath.

    We’ll pray for you buddys.

    marcel

    April 22, 2008 at 13:57

  74. Aan Dirk West,Nathan Bond, Jan Lessing en mede-denkers:
    Ek daag julle uit om god te kom ontmoet volgende jaar. Alles gratis. NB*(laat my weet)

    Lourens Botha

    April 22, 2008 at 12:15

  75. Aan Dirk West,Nathan Bond, Jan Lessing en mede-denkers:
    As julle dan so bemoeid is met die negatiewe is julle hele lewe bemoeid met die negatiewe kom aan die positiewe kant van die lewe, manne. Julle sit op die kantlyn, raak eerder betrokke. Julle sit agter julle rekenaars in donker kamers en kritiseer. Kom uit in die lig en gee dan julle ses miljoen vir die verligting van armes. Julle sit net pasief. Wanneer julle aktief raak en lig fisies mense uit dan sal julle nie krag he om hierdie negatiewe denke en lasterlike gedagtes te koester nie. Dit gaan nie oor die ses miljoen rand wat ge-in is nie maar die boodskap wat in ons lewende liggewende god in sestig duisend mans se harte geplaas is om regdeur die land ons huise en omgewing in orde te kry. Hoekom kla julle nie eerder oor die sokker wereld beker nie?

    Lourens Botha

    April 22, 2008 at 12:06

  76. “The skeptic swore, “There is no God!
    No God! – I can do anything I want!
    I’m more animal than human;
    so-called human intelligence escapes me.

    “I flunked ‘wisdom.’
    I see no evidence of a holy God.
    Has anyone ever seen Anyone
    climb into Heaven and take charge?
    grab the winds and control them?
    gather the rains in his bucket?
    stake out the ends of the earth?
    Just tell me his name, tell me the names of his sons.
    Come on now – tell me!”

    The believer replied, “Every promise of God proves true;
    he protects everyone who runs to him for help.
    So don’t second-guess him;
    he might take you to task and show up your lies.”

    Proverbs 30 v 1-6 MSG

    Reg

    April 22, 2008 at 11:15

  77. Frank

    Kan die nar asseblief vir ons soos in die tyd van Elia ‘n altaar aan die brand bid , groot asseblief man.

    As hy in die naam van god (– meer presies , die 3 gotte – of is dit nou een in drie – dalk kan jy ons hier uithelp ) voorspoed vir SA kan belowe dan is ek seker dat sy gotte nie sal warrie om ‘n ou eenvoudige altaar aan die brand te steek nie , of om vir Oscar Pretorius weer regte bene te gee nie.

    Jissis tot Bennie Hinn, TB Joshua en Jannie Pelser sukkel met die een. Vra maar self vir Rubin . Dalk kan die aartappel-profeet iets regkry !!!

    Dirk West

    April 21, 2008 at 23:00

  78. Moneymaking deal???? Only the campsites asked for R100…
    To get the campsite ready new pipes had to be laid, hot water facilities built, land set aside etc. Try camping anywhere for less than R100 for 2 nights.
    Everything else including food was free and the largest tent in the world, audio equipment and the likes had to be hired. There was no charge for any day visitors and people sleeping off-site. No everyone has bad motives. Consider that Angus lives in a wattle and daub house with no ceiling, the same one he built when he arrived in Greytown. He lives modestly to say the least. Must be storing up the hidden treasures in heaven!

    Frank

    April 21, 2008 at 21:47

  79. 60 000 gevang met die oudste triek in die boek !!!!!!!

    Hierdie 60 000 poepolle wat elk tot die R 6 miljoen + in die skynbare swendelaar se rekening bygedra het is die grap van 2008.

    Jissis en dan het hulle nog die guys om dit op SE WIE te sê ook. Tot ou Niekie vd Berg het die kak gesluk ….

    Jissis , fok my , die ou maak Hitler en ET se naam gat as dit by massa-opsweping kom. Hierdie *godiote het letterlik die hoek en sinker ingesluk .

    Hoe smile Moreletapark , vd Spuy en Elsa Meyer nie nou nie?????
    Het die heer vd Spuy ‘n Maybach in gedagte? Gaan Meyer weer vertel hoe goed sy god se stem kan hoor ?

    Die volgende shows is in vd Bijlpark , Windhoek , Loftus ( die BB maatskappy het seker geld nodig nav die Bulle se power vertoning die jaar) Kroonstad , Kimberley , Durban , Nuweland ,Oos Londen en PE.

    Ek reken die nar gaan 100 Miljoen pocket uit die * godidiote !!!! As dit so aanhou werk Bennie Hinn een van die dae vir die ou!!!

    100 000 000 Rand . Lees weer HONDERD – MILJEON – RAND … uit kakpraat en opsweping ….

    Maar god gaan SA red , net soos hy by Bloedrivier die Boere gered het van die Zoeloes maar Zuma is die volgende President maar die kinders slaap honger en kry koud .

    Nou ja – * GODIOTE – hier is my challenge.

    Ek daag die heer Angus Buchan uit – onthou hy kan die stem van die Here hoor- om net soos in die tyd van die Baal-Profete ‘n altaar aan die brand te bid. Foket , net een show en YOUTUBE kan die hele wêreld is bekeer of is die 100 miljoen belangriker ????

    Bid net die altaar aan die brand – dan is dit game set en match – almal sal glo , SATAN OOK.

    Indien die heer Buchnan nie ‘n altaar – Soos in die Tyd van Elia – aan die brand kan bid nie is hy in my oë in die selfde klas as TB Joshua , Bennie Hinn , en die gespuis van die Moreletapark sekte.

    Die foken godiote …… en daar is nie eers pille wat kan help nie .

    (*Geleen van Nathan Bond)

    Dirk West

    April 21, 2008 at 19:32

  80. A number of people who attended the MMC reported their recollections on Niekie van den Berg’s RSG show “Sê wie” earlier today.

    One caller said that people waited up to two hours in “the biggest tent in the world” for services to start and that someone would shout “Jesus” and a chorus of male voices would answer “Jesus!”. What fun!

    Another caller wanted to know if anybody knew what 60 000 male voices shouting “Amen” sounded like. No, I, for one, thankfully do not know. “Bokke!!” after a Bryan Habana try appeals to me more.

    There was a report of a man having suffered a heart attack. He was “clinically dead” for some 10 minutes before he was resuscitated. Praise Jeee-sus! But why resuscitate such a man, for crying in a bucket? He’s a believer. He’s on his way to meet Jesus… Why resuscitate him? Leave him be, for crying out loud! (Apparently, according to someone in the know, the bloke did in fact die later on. And guess what? He’s still dead, if in fact he did die.)

    According to the reports I’ve heard, the MMC was great fun. I’d be keen to attend, as long as I do not have to believe shit like virgin births and the living dead and life everlasting. One has to be quite soft in the head to be a “Believer”. “The Great Potato Farmer in the Sky” ain’t for me. Tending spuds while “his children” die from hunger and exposure. What an ass!

    NB

    Nathan Bond

    April 21, 2008 at 17:16

  81. Hi Jan Lessing

    Nathan Bond ek hoop jy weet met wie jy speel. Met redenasie kan ek jou nie oortuig om te glo nie ek sal wel vir jou bid en hoop God begenadig hom ook oor jou. Ek was daar die naweek en die was werklik iets ongelooflik. Maar ek kan seker nie verwag van iemand wie se eerste liefde hierdie wereld met sy geweld, wellus en leuens is om te verstaan wat so iets vir ‘n opregte christen beteken nie. Vir Jan Lessing hoeveel doen jy persoonlik vir armes wat het jy al gegee aan hulle of staan jy net op die kantlyn en kritiseer. Jy vergeet seker as ons Gautengers erens heen ry glimlag die platteland gewoonlik breed omdat ons gewoonlik ruim spandeer in allerande winkels en restaraunte ook genoem werkskeping of volhoubare ontwikkeling. Toerisme is immers ‘n groot bedryf in die land.

    Hou eerder op met julle nonsens en bid saam

    Seen vir julle almal

    Franscois

    Franscois

    April 21, 2008 at 15:04

  82. Why Mr Bond are yo so fascinated by GOD, JESUS,satan, and any form of religeuos act, belief?

    You are actually a good advertisment for all of the above, keep up the good work!It will steer the believers away from satan, and into the arms of our HEAVENLY FATHER!

    HOPE GOD BLESS YOU OUT OF YOUR BOOTS AND SOCKS!!

    Pieter Nortje.

    Pieter Nortje

    April 21, 2008 at 14:07

  83. As elkeen van die 60,000 mans wat R100 elk betaal het vir hul staanplek in Greytown daardie R100 in ‘n sentrale bankrekening inbetaal het dan het ons nou R6,000,000 (ses miljoen Rand) beskikbaar gehad vir verligting van armoede.
    Daarmee kon ons sowat 120 huise gebou het vir arm mense.
    As die petrol en tyd en padverbruik en motorslytasie bygetel word sal hierdie syfer dubbel wees.
    Geeneen van die gebede wat daar gebid is sal ooit ‘n resonansie of ‘n antwoord ontvang nie.
    Nie teen die waarde wat R6,000,000 vir arm mense sou beteken nie.

    Jan Lessing
    ==========================================

    Jan Lessing

    April 20, 2008 at 22:32

  84. The crashing server, the traffic jams, the congested mobile comunication system and the other logistical problems that occured this weekend was MAN-MADE. It did not stop us to answer and react to the call of THE ALMIGHTY GOD. IT just made us more determined to get to Shalom farm. I challenge you to attend the next meeting. My friend , you better prepare yourself , HE is going to break you, before HE will pick you up again. HE died for your sins too because HE LOVES YOU. HE IS THE ONE AND ONLY GOD.

    Ben van Biljon

    April 20, 2008 at 21:44

  85. Man lives and dies by his words, “God will not be mocked” . The Divine only knows his plans for you and by you childiish words I have faith that his plan wilnot be childish for you. God bless you, “Ek se bruv.

    Herman Pretorius

    April 20, 2008 at 13:37


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