Nathan Bond's TART Remarks

Religion: Respect? Ridicule!

On being a Kafir. Proudly.

with 38 comments

Provocative title; superb concise statement.

5 April 2010. Con-Tester submitted this piece by Bruce Gorton – Why I am a proud kafir –  on Times Live. I replicate it here for comment.

I am a kafir. What the word  originally  refers to is non-believers, and I am very definitely that.  I am an atheist.

Why?

It means that I don’t make excuses for people who looked the other way while priests raped children. Nor do I hold a cracker as being more sacred than an altar boy.

I don’t believe in the supernatural – so I don’t talk about how AIDS is due to someone cursing you, or how all your sicknesses can be cured by something I dreamed up. I hold that a cure must be shown to work to merit that word being applied to it. If I am wrong I am prepared to revise my opinion as more evidence comes in.

I am a proud kafir. I don’t invoke some higher power to give me success, I recognise that the only thing that can do that is my own work. If I have a problem I strive to solve it myself. This is important, people pray for peace in South Africa, praying won’t bring us peace. What will bring us peace is our willingness to have it. At the moment, that willingness is not obvious.

I am a proud kafir. I don’t believe in anything giving me any particular authority. I do not invoke the backing of an all knowing being for my opinions, and try to use that to make my opinions law. If you agree with me it is because I presented an argument you agree with on its merits, not because of some threat of hell.

If I don’t know, I don’t claim to have the answer in some God that likes me, and then defy you to prove me wrong. If I don’t know, I say I don’t know.

I take no satisfaction in the idea of people who I disagree with being tortured for all eternity. I do not hope for the end of the world or the punishment of my enemies while I gain heaven simply for holding a given opinion.

I do not support the powerful simply because they are powerful. A god which would have a hell at all is automatically not worth worshipping. Further I do not use logic which could be twisted into being a defence of Robert Mugabe – after all non-Zanu-PF supporters had enough “free will” to not support the ruling party. Their torture after all, was a consequence of using that free will.

You see this river of I all through this post, this is because I cannot speak for all kafirs. Not all are proud, not all are sceptical of supernatural claims. I am a proud kaffir because I speak for myself, not someone else.

Written by Nathan Bond

April 5, 2010 at 07:47

Posted in Religion must go!

38 Responses

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  1. Shit, Hans, maar jy is stadig – 2 en ‘n 1/2 maande om te reageer op wat ek van jou gode geskryf het. Of was die skok te groot dat iemand so min van hulle kon dink?

    “Savage, geen kommentaar is ‘n waardige antwoord waar jy betrokke is.”

    Dankie, Hans, ek weet my insig, kennis, opinie, en uitleg is van ‘n baie hoë standaard, maar ek het gedink jy sou darem ‘n waardige antwoord êrens uit die Bybel kon opdis.

    Savage

    September 23, 2010 at 02:25

  2. Savage, geen kommentaar is ‘n waardige antwoord waar jy betrokke is.

    Hans Matthysen

    September 22, 2010 at 22:01

  3. I do love the threat of violence from “Carina Botha”! Typically Chris-Chin. I’ll. Teach. You. The Bible. Even. If. I. Have. To. Bliksem. The. Skin. Off. Your. Backside. God bless you, son.

    bewilderbeast

    August 5, 2010 at 01:43

  4. Hans, wat was jou vraag nou weer? O wag, jy’t nie eers ene nie. Jy hou net aan voorgee dat jy iets weet waar ek en andere nog nie verby gesien het nie.

    Con-Tester

    July 15, 2010 at 23:15

  5. Savage, dit was ‘n aangename besoek in Griekeland en hulle glo maar ook in God, en het weggekom van die gode, wat hul voorvaders aanbid het. Hulle het effens opgradeer.

    Hans Matthysen

    July 15, 2010 at 22:17

  6. Con-Tester, kyk hoe maklik ontduik jy die vraag. Erken eeder dat jy bang is om iets daaroor te sê omdat jy deur redenasie tot ander insigte mag kom en dit sal jou gemaksone versteur.

    Hans Matthysen

    July 15, 2010 at 22:09

  7. Welkom terug, Hans. Hoe was Griekeland? Het jy so ‘n bietjie opgelees oor die griekse gode? Dit is ‘n lekkr jolly spul. Dis by hulle waar die mens geleer het om jou buurman se vrou te naai, die ander buurman dood te maak, en dan tot die gode te kla as jy op jou moer kry. Baie beter spul gode as Jesus, sy pa en die spook waaraan julle glo. Miskien moet julle upgrade.

    Savage

    July 7, 2010 at 08:03

  8. “As ons nie vryheid van spraak gehad het nie, sou ons in ‘n land gesit het waar ons onderdruk word deur fundamentalistiese gelowiges soos jy.”

    Ja, jy kan bly wees, screw-tin-eyes, anders het jy en Con-Tester nou met dik lippe rond geloop.

    Tog snaaks hoe beskaaf die klomp vrome Christene in die kerk sit en tot hulle god twak prewel, om, sodra hulle losgelaat word, te vloek en skel op hulle medemens. Carina Botha is ‘n sprekende voorbeeld waarvan ek praat.

    Savage

    July 7, 2010 at 07:41

  9. Carina, ek kry weer vir jou jammer. Die breinspoeling en stiksiennigheid wat deel van jou eenvoudige lewe is, is baie duidelik uit jou kommentaar.

    Dis mense soos jy wat kristeniste🙂 ‘n slegte naam gee. Waarom dink jy, jy moet ander mense beraad en, ja, oordeel. Hoe kristelik tog, ai toggie tog.

    As ons nie vryheid van spraak gehad het nie, sou ons in ‘n land gesit het waar ons onderdruk word deur fundamentalistiese gelowiges soos jy. Dankie tog dis nie die geval nie.

    screw-tin-eyes

    July 7, 2010 at 00:28

  10. Hans, ’n sotlike vraag verdien nie ’n antwoord nie, net bespotting. Veral as jy nie eers die balk uit jou eie oog verwyder nie.

    Con-Tester

    July 6, 2010 at 11:46

  11. Con-Tester, weereens is jy nie in staat om ‘n vraag te antwoord nie.

    Hans Matthysen

    July 6, 2010 at 10:50

  12. Hans, met jou aanhoudende ontduikings is dit beslis jy wat die vasgehaakte grammofoon plaat is. Sien, jy pos dieselfde strooi oor en oor wat veroorsaak dat mens van jou geneurie soms mis. Dalk sal die Grieke hulself tevrede hou daarmee.

    Carina Botha, is jy dalk ’n ma? Indien ja, is jou benadering ’n skande vir jou kinders wat ongelukkig nog wettig is.

    Con-Tester

    June 13, 2010 at 11:49

  13. Ek sal in Griekeland wees tot 29 Junie voordat ek weer by hierdie blog sal aansluit. Geniet die Wêreldbeker en Rugby.

    Hans Matthysen

    June 12, 2010 at 19:19

  14. “Nathan Bond”, Ek voel vir jou verskriklik jammer dat jy nooit as kind kans gekry het om ‘n audience te he voor jou maatjies (het jy ooit enige gehad?) nie, of dat jou ma sommer jou bek toegeklap het as jy probeer het om met haar dieselfde stront te praat wat jy nou in ander mense se kele wil afdruk. Ek dink jy ly nog aan kleinseuntjie sindroom wat net een verskriklike pak slae kort.

    Carina Botha

    May 25, 2010 at 20:32

  15. Con-Tester, jy gaan nou aan soos ‘n grammefoonplaat wat vasgehak het.
    Het jy al ‘n woord gesien, nie ‘n geskrewe woord nie maar ‘n gespreekte woord?

    Hans Matthysen

    May 6, 2010 at 21:11

  16. Screw-tin-eyes, ek het jou vraag beantwoord en daaroor kan jy blykbaar niks sê nie. Jy verstaan nie die Bybel nie.

    Hans Matthysen

    May 6, 2010 at 21:07

  17. Hans skryf: “Ek wys jou maar net wat in die Bybel staan want dit is waar ek my geloof vandaan kry”

    Hans, wat verstaan jy nie as mens vir jou sê wat jy uit die Bybel aanhaal is nie bewyse van enige iets nie.

    Dis ‘n klomp snert wat so hier en daar ‘n historiese vertellingtjie insluit – net genoeg om julle klomp bevange gelowiges op ‘n dwaalspoor te plaas vir die res van julle lewe.

    Bewys vir my dat hoe ek die Bybel verstaan nie waar is nie.

    screw-tin-eyes

    May 6, 2010 at 03:11

  18. Hans, you can’t prove your contentions, except to the extent of saying, “It’s true because I say it’s true and you can’t prove me wrong. I can show you an old book.” Maybe you should try a new approach like putting forward some actual evidence.

    Con-Tester

    May 5, 2010 at 22:01

  19. Con-Tester, you clearly cannot contradict what I have written above and so you hide behind your favorite quote; “It’s true because I say it’s true and you can’t prove me wrong. I can show you an old book.” Shame!

    Hans Matthysen

    May 5, 2010 at 21:17

  20. And Hans, maybe you should answer the simple question I asked earlier tonight before moving on to headier stuff. This dodging of yours would be a farce but for its tedious transparency.

    Con-Tester

    April 28, 2010 at 21:37

  21. Hans, your comments are uniformly inane: “It’s true because I say it’s true and you can’t prove me wrong. I can show you an old book.” As usual, your latest batch of comments is a stale joke.

    Con-Tester

    April 28, 2010 at 21:32

  22. Con-Tester, read my comment to Screw-tin-eyes and learn.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 28, 2010 at 21:24

  23. Screw-tin-eyes, Jesus het die brood geneem en gesê; “dit is my liggaam”. Hy breek dit deur te simboliseer dat Christus nie meer in een enkele mens meer is nie en nou in baie lede wat Sy liggaam nou uitmaak.
    1 Kor. 12:27 Maar julle is die liggaam van Christus en lede afsonderlik.
    Kol. 1:24 Nou verbly ek my in my lyding vir julle en vul in my vlees aan die oorblyfsels van die verdrukking van Christus vir sy liggaam, wat die gemeente is;
    Dit is die nuwe liggaam waarin Hy opstaan.

    Sien nou ook die wolk waarin Hy opgevaar het.
    Heb 12:1 Daarom dan, terwyl ons so ‘n groot wolk van getuies rondom ons het, laat ons ook elke las aflê en die sonde wat ons so maklik omring, en met volharding die wedloop loop wat voor ons lê,
    Die nuwe vertaling praat van ‘n skare in die plek van ‘n wolk.
    Met Sy geboorte is Hy in doeke (Sy vlees) toegedraai, net soos ek en jy en die doeke (Sy vlees) het in die graf agter gebly, net soos dit sal wees in ons geval.
    Sy opstanding het niks met die natuur te doen nie en dus is die wette van die natuur nie ter sprake nie.

    Luk 21:27 En dan sal hulle die Seun van die mens sien kom in ‘n wolk, met groot krag en heerlikheid.

    Luk 21:32 Voorwaar Ek sê vir julle, hierdie geslag sal sekerlik nie verbygaan voordat alles gebeur het nie.

    Ek wys jou maar net wat in die Bybel staan want dit is waar ek my geloof vandaan kry.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 28, 2010 at 21:22

  24. Yes, Hans, there are to be precise far, far too many like you who all think they know the unknowable. But tell me this: how, exactly, has any answer you have given after 20:58 on April 8, 2010 actually addressed the originally-posed question concerning your indecipherable gibberish of 8:00 pm on April 8, 2010?

    Con-Tester

    April 28, 2010 at 21:05

  25. Con-Tester, there are many like me and to you it is glibber as do not understand the language.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 28, 2010 at 20:58

  26. Hans, jy kan dit nie ‘both ways’ kry nie. Jy kan nie se^ dat jy die Bybel verstaan, maar ons dan nie vertel hoe jy dit verstaan nie. Iets denkbeeldigs wat jy in jou kop van oortuig is, is net bewys van een ding: self bevange en kinderagtige ‘delusion’.

    Maar ‘op’ die debat ‘n bietjie. Sonder om oor en oor dieselfde te skryf.

    Hoe sien jy die opstanding en dan opvaarding van JC en jy moet asb. die natuurwette in gedagte hou wat in die tyd van die Bybel vir die mense onbekend was, maar wat ons nou presies weet hoe dit werk.

    Versies uit die Bybel is papegaai-werk en dien nie as bewyse nie.

    screw-tin-eyes

    April 20, 2010 at 08:18

  27. Well Hans, I’m not really surprised that that’s the best answer you could come up with. I mean, only you and your god know what you’re gibbering about, so that’s okay then.

    Con-Tester

    April 19, 2010 at 22:27

  28. Screw-tin-eyes, I have no intention of convincing anyone as conviction is within.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 19, 2010 at 22:25

  29. Con-Tester, to you, it is a mystery and maybe you will never know.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 19, 2010 at 22:21

  30. Angus McSpudley and his Mighty Mashers ― Episode 1 on sale now at a soccer stadium near you. Episode 2 is an instant classic in which an artisan embraces his inner Kleenex. Episode 3 features some intrigue involving one of Potatohead’s fans held on suspicion of attempting to flambé his lover, while series 8 is planned to be held in Soweto.

    Then there’s Eugene, Julius and Angus: some reflections of ourselves as South Africans.

    Con-Tester

    April 19, 2010 at 12:10

  31. 28 offensive place names in the NC to be changed. What about “Witpoortjie”?

    Con-Tester

    April 16, 2010 at 14:08

  32. ‘seamstress’ 🙂🙂🙂

    screw-tin-eyes

    April 13, 2010 at 15:17

  33. According to a High Court ruling, calling a person a “kaffir” is injurious even if that person is white. It won’t help your case much if they’re religious, particularly Christian, because they’ll cite scripture, for example Exodus 20:14, with the aim of covering their actions in a thin veneer of morality.

    Also, beware of calling a woman who isn’t a bona fide prostitute a “whore,” a “bitch,” or a “seamstress”…😀

    Con-Tester

    April 13, 2010 at 10:35

  34. Hans, I don’t understand your postingm, like Con-Tester. Your use of the English language is very suspect.

    If you can’t make sense of English grammar, how do you think you will be able to convince us that you understand the Bible.

    Of course…..you have ‘devine’ intervention when it comes to the Bible, right = The voices in your head.

    screw-tin-eyes

    April 9, 2010 at 08:47

  35. Hans Matthysen wrote (April 8, 2010 at 8:00 pm):

    You have given us all what you do not, except two?

    Hans, what are you gibbering about?

    Hans Matthysen wrote (April 8, 2010 at 8:00 pm):

    You do not and have never understood the Bible, yet you feel, you have the authority to label it as fairy tales. You do not realise, that their are those who do understand the Bible and you just can’t live with that.

    Hans, who are you gibbering about?

    Con-Tester

    April 8, 2010 at 20:58

  36. You have given us all what you do not, except two?
    You do not and have never understood the Bible, yet you feel, you have the authority to label it as fairy tales. You do not realise, that their are those who do understand the Bible and you just can’t live with that.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 8, 2010 at 20:00

  37. Ooops, that was my comment.😮

    Con-Tester

    April 5, 2010 at 12:14

  38. Bruce Gorton wrote (April 4th, 2010):

    If I don’t know, I don’t claim to have the answer in some God that likes me, and then defy you to prove me wrong. If I don’t know, I say I don’t know.

    (Emphasis added.)

    Given a certain commenter’s belaboured harping of late, I found the above especially resonant. Maybe Bruce took some inspiration for the passage from this blog. If so, it would be a gratifying irony.

    defollyant

    April 5, 2010 at 11:53


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