Nathan Bond's TART Remarks

Religion: Respect? Ridicule!

Discombobulation

with 27 comments

September 17, 2007

Warning: NSVLP. This article contains strong language and profanity. Reader discretion is advised. Sensitive readers should read here first before proceeding with caution.

Christians, frankly, are so discombobulated in their otiose attempts at balancing a “modern scientific world view” and “faith” that they hardly know whether they’re coming or going. so here’s something on cosmic comings and goings: The Immaculate Conception (Divine Coming) and the Ascension (Divine Going).

Let’s start with the “going”… The Ascension.

A quadrillion miles through the vacuum of space. On a cloud. Clothed in a loose fitting jellaba. Not even Monty Python could come up with a skit like this! I amaze myself sometimes at my halcyon disposition in the face of such consummate folderol.

Rudolf Otto (1869-1937) identified two indispensable elements without which no religion can survive: mysterium tremendum et fascinans – (a continuing experience of) awe and wonderment… like gods, readily churned out by believers.

Sitting pretty on a hill near Jerusalem, Jesus suddenly, according to certain wowsers (pecksniffian puritans), was taken away on a fanciful journey we can easily appraise in lumine sicco: he started in the troposhere, the part of the atmosphere that is precious to us hairy bags of salty water because it contains just enough warmth and oxygen to keep us yauld (strong, wide-eyed and bushy-tailed). This band of sustaining air, however, becomes rapidly inimical to life as one rises up through it. Without protection many people become dangerously ill at 4’500 metres; at 7’500 metres, the so-called “Death Zone”, bodily distress is a virtual given – confusion, nausea, exhaustion, frostbite, hypothermia, migraine and the like are near certain afflictions. At about 11 kilometres, given a launch somewhere from Palestine, Jesus would have hit the stratosphere… and the proverbial mud would have hit the fan, in a manner of speaking. Had Jesus been travelling at the speed of, say, a modern high rise elevator, he would have reached the tropopause (the invisible “ceiling” of the troposhere, from the same Greek root as menopause – and not to be messed with!) in about 20 minutes – in dire need of oxygen, shivering at minus 57 degrees Celsius, and suffering debilitating cerebral and pulmonary edemata (swelling from excessive accumulation of serous fluid in tissue). Beyond this diaphanous floor of the stratosphere (yes, I am deliberately attempting to discombobulate you, we’re dealing with Christian dogma here!) the temperature makes like a roller coaster: it rises, due to the absorptive effects of ozone, to around 4 degrees Celsius, only to plunge to minus 90 degrees Celsius in the metosphere and rocket to 1’500 degrees Celsius in the erratic thermosphere, previously known as the ionosphere. No man, not even one allegedly having survived a cursory visit to Hades (a relatively cool maximum 444 degrees Celsius by Revelation 21:.8 – a lake of molten sulphur demands that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point of 444.6 degrees Celsius), antecedent to a supposed resurrection, can possibly survive such a journey and Jesus was, to be sure, so the theologians hold, completely human. Yet, even assuming Jesus’ survival of this break-out into outer space, high-energy solar particles would have gotten him and torn his DNA to tatters.[1]

This is probably the reason why Jesus, having solemnly promised his followers that he would return expeditiously after a brief visit to dad, had not been back – he had not survived the ascension. He’s dead.

And now, the Coming of the Lord… The Immaculate Ejaculate, a Fucking Miracle.

“You’re whát!?”

“I’m pregnant, daddy!”

“Pregnant!? You’re only 12 for crying in a bucket! Whaddaya mean ‘pregnant’!?”

“Calm down, dear…”

“Don’t you ‘calm down dear’ me, woman. My 12-year old daughter is in the pudding club, up the creek, pu the elop[2], knocked up, clucky[3], ‘in the family way’ and infanticipating, and you want me to ‘calm down’?”

“Daddy…”

“Don’t you ‘daddy’ me! It’s that Roman legionary, isn’t it? I knew it! Never trusted him. Never liked him. Told your mother. It’s him, isn’t it?! It’s whatsisname – Podex[4]!?”

“No daddy…”

“There! I told you! Didn’t I tell you… what!? ‘No daddy’? Whaddaya mean ‘No daddy’? It’s

not that sawdusted Joseph Carpenter wimp, is it?”

“No daddy.”

“‘No daddy’? There’s more… more… ‘visitors’!?

“No daddy.”

“What’s with this incessant ‘No daddy, no daddy’ shit? ‘No’, it’s not Podex; ‘no’, it’s not Woody Woodpecker, ‘no’ it’s not another. What are you telling me – it’s a fucking miracle!?

“Yes daddy.”

“‘Yes daddy’. Whaddaya mean ‘Yes daddy’?”

“An angel came to me, daddy…”

“‘An angel came to me daddy’? An angel!? What, are you meshugge[5]? And what did this angel do – come ‘to you’ or come ‘in you’?”

“There, there, dear, is that really necessary?”

“Quiet woman! I need to hear this. What did the angel do, Mary?”

“He spoke to me…”

“‘He spoke to me’… He spoke to you!? What, did he have a comely voice? An ‘angel’? What am I, a klutz[6]?

“No daddy.”

“Enough already with this ‘No daddy, no daddy, no daddy’ business! What did the angel do?”

“He told me that I will become pregnant.”

“And a right bloody Maskil[7] was this angel! Of course you’ll fall pregnant if you cavort with concupiscent, prurient, lickerish, lubricious soldiers and carpenters – if it’s not a spear or a chisel, it’s Bethlehem steel[8], but poke they will poke!”

“No daddy…”

“‘No daddy, no daddy, no daddy’… will you stop already! Who did it!?”

“The angel said God would make me pregnant…”

There is a long… pregnant silence. Then:

YHWH is my aidem[9]!? And my aynekel[10] too!? What a chachma[11]! Elohim Gadol[12]


[1] I am inbedted to Bill Bryson for much of the scientific facts in this paragraph. See A Short History of Nearly Everything, Doubleday, 2003, Chapter 17: Into the troposphere.[2] “Up the pole”: Black slang for pregnant.[3] Clucky: Australian slang for pregnant.

[4] Podex, Latin: Asshole.

[5] Meshugge, Hebrew: Crazy.

[6] Klutz, Yiddish: A clod; a clumsy, slow-wiited, graceless person; an inept blockhead.

[7] Maskill, Hebrew: Those who followed and furthered the Haskala (the movement of enlightenment, intellectual emancipation…) called themselves “enlightened ones” or Maskilim (singular: Maskil).

[8] Bethlehem steel, US black slang for an erect penis – an obvious anachronism, but I simply could not resist “Bethlehem” steel. Who could’ve?

[9] Aidem, Yiddish: son-in-law.

[10] Aynekel, Yiddish: Grandchild.

[11] Chachma, Hebrew: Wisdom. Occasionally, chachma is used to describe tricks, subterfuges, clever evasions, unrevealed meanings, or wily, casuistic hocus-pocus.

[12] God is great!

Written by Nathan Bond

September 16, 2007 at 20:10

27 Responses

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  1. Yes Hanswors, I said as much, so you merely repeating it isn’t very helpful, now is it? Maybe you should try to explain it for my and other readers’ benefit because you’re a master of biblical knowledge. I mean, you do claim that “[you] understand more of the Bible than what you ever can know or understand” (Discombobulation thread, December 22, 2011 at 23:20), so how about helping us all along here?

    Con-Tester

    December 24, 2011 at 08:32

  2. Con-tester, you are the one with the question because yet, you have not the answer.

    Hans Matthysen

    December 23, 2011 at 23:07

  3. This is the second half of the first part of a 10 part series. I won’t be posting the rest. verifanie

    A carrying mother’s deep depression makes a change in the baby’s brain; there are no words or scenes to express it or remember it. It is remembered organically. There is a tag on it, a mark made by a process known as methylation which labels the experience and alters the expression of genes and influences behavior. The genes are often interpreted wrongly by the nervous system but the addition of the chemical methyl group to the cells marks it for a lifetime. It creates an epigenetic event which changes how the genes unfold, or at least how the brain interprets those genes. When a gene changes it’s “face” it sometimes cannot be recognized. This change not only affects later behavior but also the propensity for certain serious illness including cancer. And these traumas are heavily right brained. So later in therapy when we address the patient and have her explain what is bothering her she simply does not know; the left brain wasn’t in the loop at the time, and the right brain is not talking, literally. Yet she is depressed and doesn’t know why and cannot seem to get out of it. Meanwhile, the event is tagged and waiting for connection. Until there is that connection—the hook-up, there will be damage. It is clear that only an organic, systemic therapy that can reach preverbal events can change things and help the patient get well. And that means not using the left brain primarily to accomplish it. The left brain is in secondary position.

    Science: “How Sad Moms Change A Child’s Brain. Aug 22, 2011).

    There is ample information now that when the carrying mother is under stress she is spilling stress hormones into her placenta; it impacts the fetus who is thereafter under stress, as well. It is now an imprint that will endure perhaps for a lifetime.**

    **(“Prenatal Programming of Human Neurological Function.” C.A. Sandman et al., International Journal of Peptides, Vol. 2011)

    (That is why it makes no sense talking to religiots, alcoholics or druggies, etc. verifanie)

    We must remember that most all of the very early traumas are processed on the right side, even before the left side comes into maturity; before it really exists as a force. And those early experiences are embedded into the system. And since the original experience is non-verbal the reliving must be non-verbal. And since the original experience was accompanied by a blood pressure of 170 over 115, the reliving must duplicate that exactly. The imprint cannot lie; it is remembering in its own way, neuro-biologically. And when there is a reliving of the birth trauma there are very high vital signs throughout the process. It is our way of verifying the reliving is a true event. Therefore, no therapy that is intellectual at its base (cognitive/insight) can work on this. There needs to be a different kind of language to get the patient back there.

    Both the feeling/limbic structures (hippocampus and amygdala) are part of the feeling aspect of our being and are principals in dealing with emotion. Discussing one’s fear is left brain; feeling it is right brain; think of the difference between psychoanalysis and primal therapy. Explaining one’s feeling without the actual experience is invalid, as we shall see. It cures nothing. Discussing feeling after having relived the imprinted memory is valid. The evolutionary cart is not before the horse and the system says, “Each his turn. Mind your manners; feelings first, thoughts and insights second.

    When the right side is saturated with painful feelings it becomes overwhelmed. This shows in later life as the inability to do several tasks at once because the incoming input on the left is vying for space with the internal right side activation. It becomes all “too much.” Then begins the avoidance of any task that would overwhelm the already filled-to-the-brim container. The left is not sure why it is doing this avoidance, and indeed, it remains mostly unconscious. It just acts-out, and the act-out is as unconscious as the feeling. The person is simply easily overwhelmed, seemingly by the input from outside but in reality, from old remote imprints from long ago. They surge forward and keep us overloaded. So when the husband gives orders to do this and the wife blows up and scorns his constant demands, she just “can’t take any more.” So there is constant information coming from the lower levels of the right brain telling the left of its troubles but it doesn’t want to hear. The right is saying, “Listen, there is something that I have to tell you that will save our lives.” And the left says, “Try later, I’m busy right now. I have projects to finish.” And the right responds, “You don’t understand. I have a connection to make and you are so distant; you need to welcome me.”

    Anyone interested in reading the other nine parts, can google arthurjanov.com. Click on “Janov’s reflections on the human condition”. verifanie

    verifanie

    December 23, 2011 at 13:00

  4. Hi folks,
    I am posting the first half of the first part of a 10 part series on the Right and Left Brain. Verifanie

    December 22, 2011 by Dr. Arthur Janov
    On the Right and Left Brain. There Is No Cure Without Their Unity. (Part 1/10)

    Nearly all of us know that our brains are split in two: the right and left brains. They are very different, like two separate parts of us. They have their distinct personalities and functions. One is more human/feeling than the other, as we shall see. When they don’t work together there is conflict and we are in trouble. We may get sick early in life and die prematurely. Sounds like an apocalypse, and it is. Connections between the two brains can be life saving. They need each other desperately in order to establish our humanity; this is not just an intellectual idea. If we don’t have them working together we are less human, as I shall show as we go along. The question is: what makes them not work in harmony? How do we get them to do so? And what does each hemisphere do exactly?

    Let’s look at each side and see what they do:

    THE RIGHT HEMISPHERE

    First of all, we should know that the right side came into being first and is primordial in every sense of the word. It is the feeling hemisphere. It helps store old emotional memories inside its orbit. It absorbs and registers our very early trauma while in the womb. The early experience has no words nor scenes to help us know and remember them. After all, life in the womb is wordless, nor are there scenes attached. It is all sensations and then feelings. The right brain has the key responsibility for integration of the two sides, but it cannot do it alone. It needs a partner. We will see who that will be. Clearly, the right is more “human.” It cares about the living and it cares about feeling. It is more sensitive and caring. It senses nuance, honesty and insincerity. `

    The right side is flexible and prefers a panoply of choices. It is no accident that creativity increases in those who have had a left hemisphere stroke. (The right controls the left side of the body, and vice versa). So many of my patients have discovered their artistic capabilities after therapy; they have been opened up not only to the pain on the right but also the creativity. Research has the shown a jazz riff (improvised solo) to be strictly right brain. In short, it is the feeling side that handles creativity.

    One of the reasons for the right’s flexibility is that it is better myelinated early on, meaning it has thicker myelin sheaths (a kind of fatty covering) around nerve cells that help them transfer information to other cells. It is more able to inform the top neo-cortex of what information, including pain that it is holding down deep. There is much to discuss on this hemisphere subject.

    The right side is musical, it comprehends tone, and nuance, the subtleties of sounds. In therapy the doctor needs to be aware of shifting tone because it offers us the subtext of what is going on in the patient. The tone exposes the right brain while the left brain of the patient rattles on with sophisticated big words. We understand the right side pressure by the torrent of words the patient uses. If she is loaded up to the gills with feelings the words may rush out toppling over one another, and spill out under great pressure. A slight little wobble in the throat tells us that feelings are right there. Music helps us deal with patients; it helps bring up key feelings and scenes. It evokes a special time in their lives. It is the right brain expressing itself, its emotional self. And when patients recall scenes and events, sometimes we ask them to sing the song or hum along with the radio; up come feelings. We are addressing and giving voice to the right brain; very helpful in a feeling therapy.

    To repeat: the right brain is the feeling one for good and bad. It takes precedence in our lives, gathering into its maw all the unhappy events of our early life, including life in the womb; the carrying mother’s drinking cocktails, staying on a strict diet to keep her shape, a stressful job, and/or fighting with her husband. The right hemisphere is the keeper of the truth of our early lives and what happened to us emotionally. The right cannot sustain focused attention. The left can and does. The left is interested in what is going on exactly. The right maintains a more general vigilance.

    The right lacks focused attention; just what is needed in class when the teacher gives an assignment. The right goes into panic mode and the person cannot learn. Anxiety suffuses and suffocates the left’s attempts to learn. It crosses the corpus bridge (explained in a moment), to upset the status quo. “You know,” says the right, “my right hippocampus which is suppose to handle the memory of new events cannot do the job.” It seems to be overwhelmed, and that is why anxiety cases have such poor memory of past events. The past is mostly a blank as the brain structures charged with memory have defaulted under the imprinted load. And information on the right cannot inform the left of its experience so the memory does not get embedded on the left, and the person later on can hardly recall infancy and childhood events.

    The right is often so loaded with feelings and pain that it cannot pay attention to the present; that is, it cannot focus on the present when the past is demanding attention, as well. When the past is full-up with terror and anxiety, memory vanishes. It is no accident that the right hippocampus is involved in emotional memory, and not the left. It always sees the bigger picture, and is always looking for patterns of behavior that would fit into that whole. There is a poverty of detail on the right which the left can supply. The left side loves detail. The right can’t be bothered. If instructions say, “pour out exactly two tablespoons into a saucepan,” all goes blank. The right goes by “feel” and guesses how to do it. Precision is not the right’s forte. That intuitive side is necessary in a feeling therapy, (but a little science is also helpful).

    A patient can explain how afraid she is all day long but when she gets down and feels it in past context, it is another story. The left hemisphere senses terror but only the right has access to it; it can feel it in all its strength. When there is a breakthrough of feeling to the left side there can be a panic attack; the right is purging itself.

    No level of brain tissue can do the work of a different level of brain function; the left can never do the work of the right. We need to address the painful feelings on the level at which it occurred and in the hemisphere that holds it. We cannot use words to get us to preverbal times. This is the basic mistake of today’s psychotherapy. Trying to verbally comprehend that which has no verbal rationale; that which cannot only be understood in non-verbal ways: that must be relived without words, words that had no part in the original imprint. It makes as much sense as getting the right limbic, feeling brain to engage in complex mathematics. That is not its job. You cannot talk complexity to it but you can sing to it. And because there are no words you can hum to it. Now you know why those who stutter or suffer cross dominance of the brain can stop stuttering if they sing. You can actually pinpoint the cause in this way. When we take words out of the equation things get simpler.

    The close colleague of the right hippocampus, is the right amygdala, the agent of fear and deep feelings. This is one of the key structures to limbic area feeling. The amygdala is also involved in overall emotional processing. When deeper level terror in the brainstem comes up to join feelings of fear in the right limbic area there can be an out-of-control panic. When the right amygdala is loaded with feelings it seems to engorge waiting to get rid of its load. New research indicates that the offspring of depressed mothers have enlarged amygdalas. Among other functions it scans the environment for threats and sends signals of fear so that we may react appropriately. These people become adults who might be supersensitive to threats, and when the valence of it early on was enormous we have the soil for later paranoia, someone who sees threats everywhere. ****** This is particularly true of those long time pot smokers where the right side defenses weaken and become more and more of a threat to the left. Then the left has no choice but to produce more and more strange ideas, essentially paranoiac in character. Those ideas tell us clearly that feelings are threatening and defenses are crumbling: beware! As the years go on those ideas become fixed and unassailable.

    *******Fears of gods, apocalypses, etc? verifanie

    verifanie

    December 23, 2011 at 11:05

  5. Yes, for once you’re right Hanswors: I don’t understand. The real question, though, is whether that’s because it’s fundamentally incomprehensible to begin with and you dopes are fooling yourselves that you understand it, or because of a total failure (or incapacity maybe) on your part to explain properly.

    Con-Tester

    December 22, 2011 at 23:36

  6. Con-tester, if we are dopes, then you are the greatest dope of all as you don’t even understand what is written in the bible.

    Hans Matthysen

    December 22, 2011 at 23:28

  7. 😆 Dis weereens daai geloofsskimmel wat die denk- en uitdrukkingsvermoëns ernstig aangetas het…😆

    Con-Tester

    December 22, 2011 at 23:24

  8. EricV, you seem to have a faulty detection problem and should one have never seen light, one would not have known that darkness is darkness. Before you have peace, nothing would be evil and when peace is known, evil is realized. I may not be able to quote verse by verse, yet I understand more of the Bible than what you ever can know or understand.

    Hans Matthysen

    December 22, 2011 at 23:20

  9. 😆 Die enigste ding wat hierso groei is die geloofsskimmel in jou kop, ou Hanswors!😆

    Con-Tester

    December 22, 2011 at 23:14

  10. Con-tester, God is onveranderlik en nie geloof nie, aangesien geloof groei in kennis en wysheid.

    Hans Matthysen

    December 22, 2011 at 23:09

  11. Hans, verstaan ek jou reg? Jy glo in geloof en in evolusie, en geloof is ook onderworpe aan evolusie? Ek is nou n bietjie “confused” ou maat.
    Is geloof in god nie veronderstel om op onveranderlike, universele waarhede gebaseer te wees nie? ( Dalk het ek nie mooi opgelet in katkisasie klasse nie)
    Hoe kan geloof n evolussionere proses wees, tensy Prof. Dawkins reg is en dat dit n kulturele virus is wat muteer soos n virus?
    Ek is bevrees dit lyk vir my soos n geval van “having your religion and eating it too”

    Shazee

    December 22, 2011 at 21:56

  12. Thanks for the vote of confidence, verifanie. It’s appreciated. I find your take (i.e. from a psychosocial perspective) on why religion exists, why it persists and why it is dangerous unique and interesting. While it presents something I personally cannot relate to easily in any great depth (perhaps I am that neurotic without realising it!), it’s still, to me, a novel perspective worth exploring.

    Con-Tester

    December 22, 2011 at 17:38

  13. C-T en Malherbe,
    Hier is een ou wie jul intelligensie werklik waardeer. Ek wens ek kon kommentaar lewer met sulke groot woorde wat dinge so duidelik stel. Ek verstaan wel alles wat geskryf word, maar ek is nie ‘n ou wat self groot woorde kan gebruik om my stellings te maak nie. Nahan Bond is natuurlik nog ‘n ou vir wie ek groot admirasie het. Sy krag met woorde, hetsy Afrikaans of Engels, verstom my. Maar nouja, groot woorde of nie, ek probeer maar om my punte te stel aangaande die neurose van die mens, wat ongetwyfeld aanleiding gegee het tot die totale obsessie met godsdiens en allerlei gelowe, superstisies ens. Die mensdom is siek. Emotioneel siek. Dit is vir my baie duidelik. Dit is tragies. Slagoffers van slagoffers, van slagoffers, van slagoffers, en dit hou nie op nie.

    People are in their heads. (Intellect). Hence the universal insanity and chaos. Hundreds of ideologies, ideations, belief systems, superstitions, cults etc. Control freaks who manipulate, liars who dupe the innocent, ego-maniacal politicians who make promises that are worthless, criminals who hurt and kill, psychopaths, sociopaths, bullies, crazed parents. We will be shocked to know just how many people are on all sorts of medications, tranquilisers, pain-killers, legal and illegal drugs, Everyone seems to be grasping at straws, looking for “relief”. Try this gadget, these powders, Look at advertisements on radio and TV. It is so very sad. And the children suffer. Indoctrination, suppression of feelings and emotions, i,.e crying, anger, outspokennes, the right to differ, etc.

    All we can do is to keep up the constant input about all of this. Perhaps here and there someone will listen and hear, and come to other insights and conclusions.

    verifanie

    December 22, 2011 at 17:15

  14. EricV, you may well be right but the denials of your suggestion are sure to follow shortly. What intrigues me is how monumentally clueless and dense these two dopes are, and that we haven’t mapped these things out completely yet. It’s clear enough that neither of these palookas has the cerebral capability to follow a fairly simple line of reasoning from one comment to the next, and also that they are unperturbed by the jarring inconsistencies in their understanding. Their inability to fathom what is going on here is as revealing as it is edifying of the stunted processes occupying the religiot/crediot/bibliot/godiot mind. In the “Free Will” thread, the commission of a gallery of intellectual frauds and logical fallacies leads me to get accused of “thinking it is all about [myself]”, which demonstrates yet again the fragile thinness of the available powers of comprehension. Then it actually gets made about me, I challenge it, and the response, so far, is … silence. But we’ll see if there’s a clear answer to be had.

    Con-Tester

    December 22, 2011 at 08:22

  15. C-T
    I detect a certain level of jealousy towards you from both Balanced Truths and Hansie Slim. I came to realise that they both see you as superior to their intelect. That is why they try their utmost best to sound equally intelectual themselfs.

    EricV

    December 22, 2011 at 07:55

  16. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these (things).
    (From the King James bible).
    I hope this will settle it. So jy sien Hans, jy weet eintlik fokkol van die bybel.

    EricV

    December 22, 2011 at 05:03

  17. Hanswors, should you ever muster the simple capability of following a straightforward line of reasoning (an apparent impossibility), it might actually become obvious to you that, really, you’re spouting piles upon piles of discombobulated kak.

    Still, spouted kak notwithstanding, I’m abstractedly flattered that someone of your vast intellectual capabilities should stoop to imitating me…

    Con-Tester

    December 21, 2011 at 23:23

  18. Con-tester, should you read the following (Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,) then it is obvious that you have never understood that which is written in the Bible. I therefore conclude, that what you write and say about God, is a lot of bullshit and you appear to be the one who is goofy with daffy timeless reasoning. Shame!

    Hans Matthysen

    December 21, 2011 at 23:03

  19. Shazee, as I have said before , I believe in God and I also believe in evolution as religion has also been subjected to evolution.

    Hans Matthysen

    December 21, 2011 at 22:53

  20. Pitie cites typically ridiculous apologist claptrap (May 14, 2008 at 14:12):

    Evil, in its purest form, is a “decision” (of the will) made by a created being to exist without (apart from) God. … From a human viewpoint there are degrees of evil, but the truth is that “evil” is simply the decision to be “without God.”

    Well, it’s a relief to know that while we atheists are evil (“in its purest form”, nogal!), there are all these good crushtians who love us and who keep the world safe and free of conflict…

    Pitie cites typically ridiculous apologist claptrap (May 14, 2008 at 14:12):

    Did God know before “creation” that His created beings would introduce “evil” into creation? The answer is yes. … So only in that sense, can one make the accusation that God is “responsible” for the existence of evil, that is, He permitted it to happen. It was not His choice that it was to occur. It was His choice that all created beings would choose Him.

    In summary then, this all-powerful, all-good and all-knowing creator wasn’t all-powerful, all-good and all-knowing enough to create with absolute freedom. Somehow, that all-powerfulness, all-goodness and all-knowingness failed him and he was not able to create a world in which truly free choice existed without entailing evil. Bloody hell, that’s a pretty fucking lame version of all-powerfulness, all-goodness and all-knowingness, for Kraaaaiiiiissst’s sake.

    Pitie cites typically ridiculous apologist claptrap (May 14, 2008 at 14:12):

    God does in fact create in some instances, and permits in others, calamity and adversity in the Christian and non-Christian life for the purpose of punishment, correction and guidance; but never is God the author of moral evil.

    What an excellent example of the smug, blatantly self-contradictory horseshit that believers are ever-eager to relish and to swallow! So, this god “creates instances of calamity and adversity” but “never is the author”, eh? Here, have yourselves a gold star for exemplary logical coherence. And who creates/has created the “calamity and adversity” (such as crop failures, earthquakes, epidemics, etc.) that this god only permits to occur in people’s lives?

    What a fucking hoot these goofy believer twits are, even still after more than three years. Their daffy “reasoning” is timeless.

    Con-Tester

    December 21, 2011 at 14:17

  21. I personally don’t have a need to believe in a god to have a sense of self esteem or a sense of purpose. The purpose of life is to life it. As fully and as curiously as you can, without superstition or crutches.
    To refuse to let go of these irrationalties is to waste the one life that you do have and to mis out on the vastly greater wonder of reality.
    George Gaylord Simpson put it wonderfully in “The meaning of evolution” –
    After discussing the long and tortured road of evolution that lead (not unerrringly, and definitely not necessarely) humanward, he concludes – “the result is the most highly endowed organization of matter that has yet appeared on the earth – and we certainly have no good reason to believe there is any higher in the universe. To think this result insignificant would be unworthy of that high endowment, which includes among its riches a sense of values.”

    Enough said,the wonder of (amongst rather a lot else) evolution leaves me in no need of a non existant higher being.

    Shazee

    December 21, 2011 at 12:58

  22. Pitie, well done, as yet there is no negative responce.

    Hans Matthysen

    June 23, 2008 at 20:58

  23. Did God Create Evil?

    http://www.bibleone.net

    Did God create Evil? At a certain college there was a professor with a reputation for being tough on Christians. At the first class, every semester, he asked if anyone was a Christian and proceeded to degrade them and mock their statement of faith.

    One semester, he asked the question and a young man raised his hand. The professor asked, “Did God make everything young man?” He replied “Yes sir HE did!” The professor responded, “If God made everything, then HE made evil.” The student didn’t have a response and the professor was happy to once again prove the Christian faith to be a myth.

    Then another man raised his hand and asked, “May I ask you something, sir?” “Yes, you may,” responded the professor. The young man stood up and said, “Sir, is there such a thing as cold?” “Of course there is, what kind of a question is that? Haven’t you ever been cold?”

    The young man replied, “Actually, sir, cold doesn’t exist. What we consider to be cold is really an absence of heat. Absolute zero is when there is absolutely no heat, but cold does not really exist. We have only created that term to describe how we feel when heat is not there.”

    The young man continued, “Sir, is there such a thing as dark?” Once again the professor responded, “Of course there is.” And once again, the student replied, “Actually, sir, darkness does not exist. Darkness is really only the absence of light. Darkness is only a term developed to describe what happens when there is no light present.”

    Finally, the young man asked, “Sir, is there such a thing as evil?” The professor responded, “Of course, we have rapes, murders and violence everywhere in the world. Those things are evil.” The student replied, “Actually, sir, evil does not exist. Evil is simply the absence of God. Evil is a term developed to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. It isn’t like truth, or love which exist as virtues like heat or
    light. Evil is simply the state where God is not present, like cold without heat, or darkness without light.”

    The professor had nothing to say……………..

    ________________________________________________________________________

    From this site’s editor:

    The discourse above has merit. God is holy [1], which means many things, such as “justice” and “perfection.” It is without doubt synonymous with “deity.”

    Since God is transcendent and independent of His created universe (1 Kgs 8:27), He is separate from its inhabitants and feared by them (e.g., Ex 19:10-25; 20:18-21). Thus holiness becomes equivalent to true deity, separating Him from the impotence of the gods of the defeated Egyptians (Ex 15:11): “Who is like unto thee, O Lord, among the gods? Who is like thee, glorious in holiness?” “Holy” in many passages is synonymous with “divine”: “There is none holy [uniquely divine] as the Lord: for there is none beside thee” (1 Sam 2:2; cf. Ps 99:3, 5, 9; Isa 40:25; Hab 3:3). Because He is holy, truly deity and thus infinite, there is no searching of His understanding (Isa 40:28; Ps 145:3). Holiness, then, is what characterizes God, and it includes all His other attributes.

    (Wycliffe Bible Dictionary, Barton J. Payne, Th.D., Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature, Covenant Theological Seminary, St. Louis, Mo.)

    For certain when there is “holiness” there is the absence of “evil.” God never created evil or anything as evil. Evil, in its purest form, is a “decision” (of the will) made by a created being to exist without (apart from) God. When God created Lucifer, a magnificent and strikingly beautiful angelic form, God created him with the ability of free choice. When Lucifer willfully chose pride to dominate his life and willfully chose to elevate himself to the level of God, it was then that Lucifer (Satan) introduced “evil” into the created universe [2]. When Eve and Adam chose to disobey God in the Garden of Eden, it was they who introduced evil into the human race, which is transmitted (the “sin nature” through the seed of the male from generation to generation, to us today [3].

    Did God know before “creation” that His created beings would introduce “evil” into creation? The answer is yes. He knew, but without allowing His created beings the freedom of choice and its result, there could never be a full manifestation and appreciation of God’s holiness, love and grace [4]. What is more is that man, as a creation of God in His image, would never have had the opportunity for true fellowship with God, which is the very essence of the heavenly state. On a parochial plain, we may understand an inkling of this when we understand that there is no appreciation of light without the existence of the absence of light (darkness), or warmth without the existence of the absence of heat (cold). So only in that sense, can one make the accusation that God is “responsible” for the existence of evil, that is, He permitted it to happen. It was not His choice that it was to occur. It was His choice that all created beings would choose Him. But because they did not, He now is able to manifest His true nature to them. In the final analysis it could not have been any other way. Without free choice, man would have been a mere robot, who could never have understood and appreciated the nature of and fellowship with God—the ultimate and perfect state of a created being.

    From a human viewpoint there are degrees of evil, but the truth is that “evil” is simply the decision to be “without God.” As one continues to exercise this decision in one’s life, it may well manifest itself in degenerative acts of unspeakable degree that may indeed impact one’s eternal state in hell should one die “spiritually” in that state of being. But no matter the degree, as man so judges the outward forms of evil, any person who is “without God” and thereby in a spiritual state of evil at the time of physical death will face an eternity in this condition apart from God in the lake of fire [5].

    The only way a person may escape this spiritual condition (of “evil” or “death” is by faith alone in Christ alone. When a person turns totally and genuinely, by a decision of the will, to Jesus Christ (which is “the” act of repentance, that is, the turning away from every other confidence such as works or religion) by placing full confidence (trust) in Him and His sacrifice on Calvary for his personal salvation; that person instantly (at that moment of decision) is transferred from a spiritual state of evil (without God) to a spiritual state of holiness (union with God). This is a permanent arrangement that can never be undone, by God or man. [6]

    Even so, while in human form, which embodies the “sin nature;” a Christian can still experience prodigal moments and journeys [7] as a result of evil (without God) decisions that will affect his present physical life and eternal awards to come [8]. Nevertheless, because the Christian’s soul and spirit are linked with God through Jesus Christ and are always in a spiritual “state of holiness,” they will be secure because of what Christ did, and never because of what the Christian can or will do. [9]

    No Christian may every blame God for moral evil within the created universe, nor for any temptation toward evil. God does in fact create in some instances, and permits in others, calamity and adversity in the Christian and non-Christian life for the purpose of punishment, correction and guidance; but never is God the author of moral evil. [10]

    The creature—whether angel or human—is created to be God-centered. To become self-centered is a contradiction of the basic law of creature existence. The falsification of God’s moral order, is, when self-centered, complete. It is also found to be a violation of the original design relative to interrelationships between finite beings themselves. Sin is not against God, but is against all other fellow beings.

    There are several doctrines that man may never be able to fully understand. The beginning of evil may indeed be one of them. Nevertheless the fact remains that there is evil present within the universe and upon earth. Yet the day is coming for those who by faith alone in Christ alone have changed their spiritual state from “evil” to “holiness,” when they will experience no more evil or its fruit forevermore.

    Pitie

    May 14, 2008 at 14:12

  24. The Secular Basis for Self-Esteem

    You are the descendant of a tiny cell of primordial protoplasm that washed up on an ocean beach 31/2 billion years ago. You are the blind and arbitrary product of time, chance, and natural forces. Your closest living relatives swing from trees and eat crackers at the zoo.

    You are a mere grab bag of atomic particles, a conglomeration of genetic substance. You exist on a tiny planet in a minute solar system in an obscure galaxy in a remote and empty corner of a vast, cold, and meaningless universe. You are flying through lifeless space with no purpose, no direction, no control, and no destiny but final destruction.

    You are purely biological entity, different only in degree but not in kind from a microbe, virus, or amoeba. You have no essence beyond your body, and at death you will cease to exist entirely. What little life you do have is confined to a fragile body aimlessly moving through a world plagued by war, famine, and disease. The only question is whether the world will manage to blow itself up before your brief and pointless life ends on its own.

    In short, you came from nothing, you are going nowhere, and you will end your brief cosmic journey beneath six feet of dirt, where all that is you will become food for bacteria and rot with worms.

    Now . . . why don’t you feel good about yourself?

    The Christian Basis for Self-Esteem

    You are a special creation of a good and all-powerful God. You are the climax of His creation, the magnum opus of the greatest artist in the universe. You are created in His image, with capacities to think, feel, and worship that set you above all other life forms. You differ from the animals not simply in degree but in kind.

    Not only is your kind unique, but you are unique among your kind. God has masterminded the exact combination of DNA and chromosomes that constitute your genetic code, making you as different from all others as every snowflake differs from the rest.

    Your Creator loved you so much and so intensely desires your companionship and affection that, despite your rebellion, He gave the life of His only Son that you might spend eternity with Him. If you are willing to accept the gift of salvation, you can become a child of God, the king of the universe.

    As a Christian, you are clothed with the righteousness of Christ. He has given you special gifts and abilities to serve Him in a particular and unique way.

    Your heavenly Father is sovereign, and will allow nothing to cross your path that is not Father-filtered. He cares for you so much that he is totally available to you at all times, and listens to every word you say. He cares deeply about your hurts, and has a perfect plan for your life. He has given you the inspired Word of God as a road map for living. He gives you the truth that sets you free, a life that is abundant and eternal, and a spiritual family that loves and needs you.

    Your destiny is to live forever in a magnificent kingdom, to reign with Christ over the universe. You will forever enjoy the wonders of His presence and the marvels of His creations. You will spend eternity in intimate and joyful fellowship with your beloved Lord and your precious spiritual family.

    Now . . . how does that make you feel about yourself?

    Pitie

    May 14, 2008 at 14:11

  25. Dirk, volgens Rom. 8 v 5, bedink vleeslike mense, vleeslike dinge en geestelike mense, geestelike dinge. Nou wonder ek wie se koppie raas, want as jy nie geestelike kan bedink nie, gees raas nie, maar vlees wel?

    Hans Matthysen

    May 11, 2008 at 22:21

  26. Hans jou fokking koppie raas baie

    Dirk West

    May 9, 2008 at 13:26

  27. Again I see you have been misinformed and allow me to show you what took place. At His memorial service, He was transported by a great cloud (of witnesses – Heb. 12 v 1) into heaven. I trust that at my memorial service, my way of life, will also cause a great cloud of witnesses, to gather and transport me to heaven.

    Hans Matthysen

    April 28, 2008 at 22:38


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